Seòmar agus comataidhean

I totally appreciate where you are coming from. The evidence that has been given and the work that has been done to show the real impacts in the wider justice sphere, particularly on children and young people, has been crucial. I give a commitment and a reassurance that the concerns about how children and young people are dealt with in the justice system are important at any point, but they are more important than ever during a pandemic.

I encourage all those who have concerns with this aspect—or, indeed, any other aspect—of the bill to continue their discussions with ministers and officials in order to see whether we can alleviate some of their concerns. I hope that we can do so in relation to some of the points that the commissioner has raised. I absolutely take on board the seriousness of the commissioner’s office’s concerns and the importance of the commissioner’s views on such matters.

As I said, it is not simply the view of the Scottish Government that the bill is compatible; the statement that was provided by the Presiding Officer—

If we have learned anything during Covid, it is that we, as a Parliament, work better on public health measures when we are united, if we can be.

For the reasons that I have read out—because I believe that some evidence that was given was based on a misunderstanding that there had been a derogation from aspects of the ECHR. We will of course continue to discuss that with the children’s commissioner.

As I said in a previous answer, we very much believe that the issue has been looked at seriously. The bill has safeguards around how the powers can be used. It has safeguards to ensure that we have regard to public health advice from the chief medical officer, and that any measures are necessary, proportionate and time specific.

I am confident that we have this right, but we will continue to work with stakeholders who have concerns to see what can be done to alleviate those concerns as the bill passes through Parliament. I absolutely appreciate that the committee is concerned about what the commissioner’s office said. I give the reassurance that we are very confident in where we are at, but we will continue the conversations with stakeholders.

I say with the greatest respect that we are taking our time. How long the bill takes to go through Parliament is up to Parliament—

No. We would get into that area only because of public health measures regulations. We are absolutely clear and confident that the bill does not affect the charitable status of universities.

I agree with Mr Ewing that days are critical. Earlier, I mentioned the requirement to be able to make decisions at speed. Days really count when we are talking about the impact of a virus on public health—we have seen that serious impact very clearly during the coronavirus pandemic.

I appreciate that Universities Scotland has concerns about the granularity of the powers. I will not comment on the example that Mr Sim decided to give to the committee. I attempt to work in partnership with universities and, if they have concerns about those aspects, the Government is happy discuss them with Universities Scotland. I appreciate that there are concerns about that, but Universities Scotland needs to see where the Government is coming from in relation to why we feel that we need the powers. On that basis, I hope that we can reach a better understanding with Universities Scotland than we have at the moment.

As the pandemic has gone on, the Government has continued to learn lessons about whether the powers that we have had have been effective and whether there are any limitations to or difficulties with those powers in dealing with the coronavirus pandemic. Had we gone through two years of the coronavirus and not felt that the proposals that we were bringing forward would deal with the coronavirus, we would not be putting them forward. Indeed, over the past two years, stakeholders would have made it very clear if they felt that the powers that we had were not helping us to deal with the coronavirus.

However, we must try to ensure that this bill is able to deal with not just another wave of the coronavirus, but other public health emergencies as they might arise. In this bill, we are trying to make sure not only that we are ready for the coronavirus, but that the powers would work for other public health measures. In drafting the education parts of the bill, we have looked very carefully at how the powers have worked in practice and, importantly, how stakeholders have felt that the powers have worked in practice, as we have used or not used them during the past two years.

You are quite right to point out the importance of this being about regulations rather than direction and the process that must be gone through to ensure that regulations are brought in through the parliamentary system. As well as ministers having to have regard to the advice of the CMO on protecting public health, we must be satisfied that any regulations that we bring in are necessary and proportionate for the continued provision of education. Parliamentary approval is required before any regulations are made or, where necessary—when regulations are made for reasons of urgency—within 28 days of the date on which they are made. In addition, any regulations will apply only for a specified period and will be subject to review every 21 days.

I hope that that signals to the committee the fact that safeguards are in place. Although the Government will be able to work quickly in a public health emergency, we will certainly not make change for change’s sake, given the safeguarding mechanisms that the bill rightly contains to prevent us from making unnecessary changes.

That is an important point, which points to a lesson that was learned in relation to how the bill would be framed, compared with the way in which the emergency legislation—which was considered at great speed, necessarily, and to the best of Parliament’s ability—was framed. As the pandemic moved on, Parliament became concerned about the fact that safeguards were not in place, simply because of the speed with which the Coronavirus (Scotland) Bill went through Parliament and became an act. We have given serious consideration to that, which is why the safeguards are in place in the bill.

As you pointed out, it is right that we look at the whole package, which includes not only individual aspects that could be included in the regulations, but the steps that would have to be taken before we got to the point of having regulations with those specifics in them. It is important to bear in mind the overall package.