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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 24 October 2025
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Displaying 1141 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget 2023-24

Meeting date: 22 February 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

Because we will work closely and carefully with local authorities in-year, there will be a clear understanding from them about what will happen and the implications of that. It is for local authorities to then weigh up whether it would be sensible to carry on strategically cutting teacher numbers because they will know the implications. I do not think that we will get to that situation because, through the collaboration that we will have in-year, they will be very clear about the implications of that and how it might not make financial sense for a council to do it.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget 2023-24

Meeting date: 22 February 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

Well, you are looking at a hypothetical situation in the future.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget 2023-24

Meeting date: 22 February 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

The money is in the budget for next year.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget 2023-24

Meeting date: 22 February 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

It now has to be found to be spent on teachers’ pay.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget 2023-24

Meeting date: 22 February 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

I will have to find that money in year to assist with the pay offer. I go back to the point that I have made all along in the teachers’ pay dispute that, if we increase the capacity for local government to improve its offer as the employer, the money needs to be found and that is not without consequence. That money will be found from the education and skills budget.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget 2023-24

Meeting date: 22 February 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

Well, I will have to analyse that and make those decisions in year to ensure that the education and skills budget balances. Clearly, though, Mr Kerr, you have been demanding that I take action to improve the pay offer. I have made it clear to you every single time that the only way in which that can be done is by the money being increased—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget 2023-24

Meeting date: 22 February 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

No, it is just numeracy.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget 2023-24

Meeting date: 22 February 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

We will have to work through that in-year.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget 2023-24

Meeting date: 22 February 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

For brevity, I will restate something that I said earlier. I have seen no research to suggest that cutting teacher numbers, or the number of learning hours that children spend in school, would improve attainment. There is an obligation on Government to do all that we can to try to ensure that numbers are maintained if not improved.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget 2023-24

Meeting date: 22 February 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

First, I would point out that, in 2022-23, the money was given with the understanding that it would be used for teacher numbers and pupil support staff, and that was our expectation as we went through the year. We have received and continue to receive reassurances from the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities that it was spent on education and issues surrounding education—particularly teacher numbers. However, if Mr Dey would like to pass on a copy of that letter from Angus Council to let me see the details, I would be happy to respond, because clearly the situation will vary from council to council. However, the overall reassurance from COSLA that the money was spent on education is something that we had to take on good faith.

Clearly, when the teacher census numbers came out, there was concern that that might not have been the case in every situation. That is why, looking forward, we are very keen to ensure that we have further monitoring in place to ensure that we get from that money what we expect, which is to at least maintain teacher and pupil support staff numbers over the year ahead. I would be happy to receive that letter and to look into it in further detail, if Mr Dey wishes to pass that on.