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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 22 August 2025
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Displaying 1025 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 18 January 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

Large capital projects are best and most easily done during the summer holiday period. We would hope that we could get into a position whereby that could be in place for the start of the academic year, though that might not be possible for all school projects. Obviously, there is a caveat as we work through the details of the expansion, but that is certainly our hope, and I think that everyone is keen to move forward as quickly as possible.

If a number of local authorities could proceed but a small number of local authorities or a small number of schools in different local authorities had not reached the point of being able to offer the provision, we would not want the whole project to be held back by a potentially small number of schools not having reached capacity. We might look to see whether there were other avenues that we could go down to bring in the scheme.

That is a long way of saying that we hope that it can be applied from the start of the academic year.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 18 January 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

That is exceptionally important. With the best will in the world, there is no point in having the scheme if families do not know about it or are not encouraged to take it up, whether that is done through the work that local authorities already do to encourage eligible families or through work that we can do through Social Security Scotland. We also have the Parent Club, which Ms Haughey has referred to and which is an important avenue of communication for the Scottish Government.

We will look at every avenue that we possibly can in order to ensure that people are aware of the scheme and that we make it as simple as possible for people to take part in it, while encouraging them to do that. Many local authorities are being proactive about ensuring that families receive all their entitlements, and there is important work that we can do with them around that. We are keen to assist them in any way, through any of the agencies, including Social Security Scotland.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 18 January 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

Let me first deal with the geographical issue with subjects. I totally appreciate that we have parts of the country where people cannot get employment, particularly in primary settings in some local authorities, while other local authorities continue to have to advertise, particularly for secondary subjects.

What we look at in initial teacher education is where the places are. We could try to have more initial teacher education in different universities or to deliver it in innovative ways so that it is not so focused in the central belt, which is sometimes where we see challenges.

We are considering what we can do to encourage people into science, technology, engineering and mathematics, or STEM, subjects—although not only those—and we have a bursary to encourage people to move into that subject area. We are doing work, under the Logan review, to see what we can do around computing. We have such schemes to ensure that we deal with subject areas. That is a continuing challenge not just in Scotland but elsewhere. We are very keen to learn from elsewhere what more we might need to do to assist with that.

I am keen to work with local authorities on whether there is more that they can do in terms of incentives. It might be that we have an overprovision of some skills in parts of the central belt, but, for very understandable reasons, such as a family being established, people do not have a desire to move to other parts of the country. Is there further incentive work that local authorities could do to assist with that? We have some such arrangements already built in for some of our island communities, for example, but a discussion is to be had about whether more can be done. Discussion on that will continue with the professional associations.

I hope that that deals with some of the issues that you have raised, Mr Marra.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 18 January 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

I point to the response from Colleges Scotland when the budget was announced. Andy Witty said:

“Today Scottish Government has recognised the vital role of colleges in assisting in the economic recovery, alleviating poverty and mitigating climate change.”

He went on to talk about the genuinely constructive discussions that Colleges Scotland, Mr Hepburn, officials and I had on the issue.

It is clear that there is an increase of £26 million in the resource budget for 2023-24, which demonstrates, under very difficult financial circumstances, a real commitment from the Government to support our colleges and universities.

Yes, there are challenging times ahead for the Scottish Government, public agencies and colleges—these are difficult financial times. However, despite that, we have been able to increase the net college sector resource budget, because we recognise the situation. Individual colleges will be looking at important aspects of their budget, and they might need to make changes to their curriculum to deliver what they wish and need to deliver for the local economy. Colleges will take those decisions.

We have an increase in the overall budget. The Scottish Funding Council will move forward with draft applications for colleges in March and final allocations thereafter, so that they can deliver with the increased budget that they are receiving from the Government.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 18 January 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

Yes.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 18 January 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

—and we have gone through in great detail, in the chamber and in writing, how there is no freeze on apprenticeship places. For brevity, I will leave that there, convener. As I said earlier, draft allocations will come out in March.

Forgive me, but I did not write down your second question when you were going through your list, Mr Kerr. If you would like to remind me of it, I will go back to it.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 18 January 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

I have a feeling that Mr Hepburn’s recollection will differ and that recollections may vary about whether he gave a non-answer.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 18 January 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

The £26 million is a welcome addition to what the sector perhaps expected before the budget was announced. The Funding Council has a role to work with Colleges Scotland and with the colleges to ensure that allocations are provided and that that supports colleges in the best way that we can.

I do not in any way decry the concerns from principals that this is an exceptionally tight time for them and that colleges may need to take difficult decisions. In the budget process, we have increased the funding—that was not expected when we set out the resource spending review, but we have done that.

We will work closely with colleges. The point about flexibilities is important. Colleges often say that they are hampered in taking budgetary decisions by how allocations are made and by the funding settlement. If we can assist them in the process by giving them more flexibility and allowing them to use funding more innovatively than they perhaps could under our tighter—or more rigid, I should say—controls in the past, we are really keen to look at that. As I said to Mr Kerr, that work is on-going.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 18 January 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

I will broaden out the question from that very hypothetical situation.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 18 January 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

I take the point. It is important that we have deadlines to drive that forward, but I also hear clearly from those in the system that there is a real need for us to look at how much change the system can cope with at once.

A lot of consultation is going on at the moment, following the completion of the national discussion, which was an important factor in forming an understanding of where Hayward and other parts of the reform process might go. For example, there is no point in defining the way that we do qualifications and assessments before we look at what we want from Scottish education.

The other aspect, which I will stick closely to, is that I have absolutely no problem in defending something taking a bit more time if what I get as part of the reform process is not as radical a reform as I want. If material comes back that does not deliver on what I want to see, I will be up front and say that we will take more time, because it must be genuine reform. If I am not happy with some of the proposals, it is better that I do that rather than accept what comes from the first round of proposals, knowing that it does not deliver the reform that I want.

There is a real urgency for us to get on with the reforms, but there is also a need for us to do it in a timely manner and to bear in mind how much is going on in the education system as we ask it to consult on the national discussion, the Hayward review and other aspects.