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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 14 February 2026
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Displaying 1184 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Shirley-Anne Somerville

Indeed. That takes me to my next point, which is the very important part that child poverty delivery plans play. Social security is only one aspect of assisting people with poverty; the others are about ensuring well-paid employment and allowing people to take part in education and training.

There are different ways of dealing with poverty. Social security is a very important one, and some of the evidence that has come to the committee and others shows that it is making an impact. However, we can tackle poverty in other ways. That is why there are several legs to the child poverty delivery plan stool: employment is one of them, and the way into employment through education is clearly very important, too. It ties into the wider opportunity costs that we have in Government.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Shirley-Anne Somerville

I am happy to provide further information about eligibility for two-year-olds. It is not to do with being out of work per se. The terminology that was used—

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Shirley-Anne Somerville

Yes. The eligibility criteria are about providing families who would benefit from additional support for those young people—

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Shirley-Anne Somerville

That is because we know that one of the important aspects of childcare and other services is preventative spend. Creating generational change in young people’s lives is about the impact that we can make in the earliest years. That was the reason for the term “vulnerable two-year-olds”. We now talk about “eligible two-year-olds” in relation to early learning and childcare, but that type of preventative spend is an important part of our work to improve our longer-term rates and make systemic change in relation to poverty.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Shirley-Anne Somerville

As I said in my opening remarks, we recognise that, by 2029-30, additional investment is projected to be around 3.5 per cent of the total Scottish Government resource budget. That is an increase of less than 1 per cent compared with the current year, but it is still an increase.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Shirley-Anne Somerville

I think that it is a mark of success if those who are eligible for a benefit are supported to get it and no longer feel any stigma in getting what they are entitled to. One of the reasons why expenditure on benefits, and particularly adult disability payment, is going up to a greater extent here than it is in the rest of the UK is that, as the Fiscal Commission and others have pointed out, people are being supported through that process. There is analysis to ensure that, if they are eligible, they will get it and, if they are not eligible, they will not get it, but the process is a supportive one, and people are now coming forward who, because of the stigma, did not come forward under the previous system.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Shirley-Anne Somerville

I am happy to go into a lot more detail on this, and I am sure that David Wallace will be, too. However, as I said at the start of this session, it is factually incorrect to say that the Scottish Government is not moving forward with any analysis of, and then action on, the historical debt that was built up with the benefits administered by the Department for Work and Pensions. We can spend as much time as you like going through this, Mr Hoy, because I am content that we have a robust process for dealing with fraud, as David Wallace has laid out, as well as a process that ensures that what we do with overpayments is robust but fair.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Shirley-Anne Somerville

I go back to my point that the legislative basis for the Scottish child payment is for recipients to be in receipt of universal credit. I have not seen evidence that would suggest that universal credit is given to people who are not in poverty or that it is somehow a profligate measure that allows people to live with great expanse. Indeed, all the work that is done by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation, the Institute for Public Policy Research and others suggests that people who receive universal credit lack the ability to get the basic essentials of life. That is why we have called on the UK Government to deliver an essentials guarantee. We have to be very cautious about talking about people who are in receipt of universal credit as if they are living in a profligate and expansive financial context. The evidence, not just from the Government but from others, is that they are not.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Shirley-Anne Somerville

Many of the aspects that you mentioned are equally available to people who are in and out of work. Eligibility is to do with whether they are deemed to be in poverty or in receipt of certain reserved benefits, so—

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 16 September 2025

Shirley-Anne Somerville

No. We have covered quite a lot, and we will get back to you in writing with some of the details that the committee has asked for.