Seòmar agus comataidhean

I am happy to include Citizens Advice Scotland. We will keep the petition open and seek information from the bodies suggested by Paul Sweeney and Bill Kidd. Are members content with that?

Members indicated agreement.

Good morning and welcome to the sixth meeting in session 6—we have six MSPs this morning as well, so that is 666—of the Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee. We are meeting in hybrid format and Paul Sweeney is joining us remotely. Our only agenda item is the consideration of new petitions.

To those petitioners who might be following our proceedings, I say that, as a first step, we write to the Scottish Government for their views on the petitions that we are considering, and that all members of the committee have the opportunity to consider the detailed submissions that we receive in advance of our consideration of petitions.

Our first petition is PE1883, on the opening of toddler and baby activities in tier 3 of Covid-19 and any future pandemic lockdowns, which has been lodged by Katrina Clark. I am very pleased to welcome our colleague Jackie Baillie, who will speak in support of the petition. The petition calls on the Scottish Parliament to urge the Scottish Government to allow baby and toddler activities to be considered equally with other indoor activities in tier 3 of future lockdowns.

In its response, the Scottish Government states that guidance was available from September 2020 for unregulated organised children’s activities and was developed in consultation with relevant stakeholders; that soft play centres in level 0 and level 1 areas began to reopen from 2 November 2020; and that all centres were able to reopen on 19 July 2021.

The response highlights support for families during the pandemic, including in relation to play and wellbeing, and notes that, due to the fluid nature of the pandemic, the Scottish Government is not in a position to rule out further Covid-19-related restrictions or to advise on what those might be.

The petitioner’s response points out that, even though guidance was in place from late 2020 onwards,

“the general consensus from parents on social media ... was that baby/toddler groups were not available until March/April/May of this year.”

The petitioner draws comparisons with the reopening of pubs and cafes, and suggests that age groups were not treated equally. She also highlights the impact on speech and language.

Before members comment on the petition, I wonder whether Jackie Baillie would care to speak in support of it.

PE1887, which was lodged by Nicola Murray, calls on the Scottish Parliament to urge the Scottish Government to create an unborn victims of violence act, creating a specific offence that enables courts to hand down longer sentences for perpetrators of domestic violence that causes miscarriage.

The Scottish Parliament information centre briefing that has been provided sets out the current legal framework and explores how various criminal offences may apply to instances of domestic abuse during pregnancy. The information is summarised in the clerk’s note, which notes that women are at increased risk of physical abuse, and particularly domestic violence, during pregnancy and early maternity.

The Scottish Government submission provides information on the Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Act 2018, stating that it enables physical, psychological and controlling behaviours to be prosecuted at once, which includes certain forms of psychological abuse and coercive and controlling behaviour that were previously difficult to prosecute.

However, in her submission, the petitioner shares her experience of domestic abuse, which sadly led to the loss of her child. She explains that she was hit by a car and that her injuries caused her to miscarry, which led to her partner taking a plea deal of reckless and culpable conduct with a domestic abuse aggravator. The sentence was a payment of just £300 compensation.

The petitioner explains the impact of the incident, including permanent left-side weakness, difficulty in walking for long periods or distances, complex post-traumatic stress disorder and grief.

In 2018, the petitioner conducted a study with 40 female domestic abuse survivors, the main findings of which are provided in the clerk’s note. Do colleagues wish to speak about this serious petition?

Would anybody like to comment?

Thank you, minister. I also thank David Bishop for his contribution and Terry O’Kelly for his audio participation.

I would like to reflect on what we have heard. I suggest that we take time to read the Official Report of this discussion and return to the petition at a subsequent meeting. Do members agree with that suggestion?

Members indicated agreement.

We will suspend briefly to bring in the next panel.

Perhaps, as I have come to the matter as a consequence of the petition and have followed some of the work that has gone on in the Parliament, I can ask a question that will help me understand the broader issue. Do we know how many people are diagnosed as autistic in Scotland? If so, do we know whether there are any regional variations? You have mentioned the disparity of approach between local authorities, but does that influence our understanding of the number of people diagnosed with autism or is that not a by-product of the variable approach? Do we have a fairly clear idea about this?

Thank you very much. At this point, I should tell the committee that we will be taking evidence from ministers at about 11.30.

David, you have already suggested that we write to Police Scotland, the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service, the Equality and Human Rights Commission and the Scottish Courts and Tribunals Service. We agree to do that. On the back of my comment, you have suggested that we also write to the Scottish Government to ask for validation of the actual prosecutions that have taken place in such circumstances. I presume that, when the Scottish Government talks about the use of prosthetics, such a crime could be committed by a male or a female. I would like to understand the reality of the analysis, rather than just the theoretical and technical aspects of the issue.

May I interrupt? Terry O’Kelly has now joined us on audio. Given that you have just addressed that point, perhaps he will elaborate on it.