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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 1 December 2025
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Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee

Continued Petitions

Meeting date: 8 June 2022

Jackson Carlaw

Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 10th meeting in 2022 of the Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee.

We have a number of interesting evidence sessions this morning, the first of which is on continued petition PE1865. It seems that the committee has been preoccupied with that petition for coming up to a decade. It almost feels like 10 meetings and 10 years of this important issue.

The petition, which was lodged by Roseanna Clarkin and Lauren McDougall, calls on the Scottish Parliament to urge the Scottish Government to suspend the use of all surgical mesh and fixation devices while a review of all surgical procedures that use polyester, polypropylene or titanium is carried out, and while guidelines for the surgical use of mesh are established.

We have previously met the Minister for Public Health, Women’s Health and Sport, Maree Todd. I welcome her again and thank her for attending. We are also delighted to have with us the chief medical officer, Professor Sir Gregor Smith. Terry O’Kelly is back with us, but online. I say good morning to him as well.

We previously considered the petition in an online meeting in which we took evidence from Dr Fernando Spencer Netto of Shouldice hospital in Canada. A number of questions arise from all the evidence that we have heard.

As we have gone along, we have had a lot of evidence that many people have benefited from mesh as a treatment for hernias. However, I will start with a couple of back questions, as this might be the last time that we cover mesh in quite such wide detail.

In relation to the Transvaginal Mesh Removal (Cost Reimbursement) (Scotland) Act 2022, there have been some reports that we are still trying to negotiate—

Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee

Continued Petitions

Meeting date: 8 June 2022

Jackson Carlaw

Yes—I think that Mr O’Kelly would like to contribute.

Good morning, Mr O’Kelly—over to you.

Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee

Continued Petitions

Meeting date: 8 June 2022

Jackson Carlaw

MHRA regulation is reserved, but I think that there was a very strong feeling across all parties in this Parliament that, wherever support could be given to efforts that the Scottish Government was making to progress issues around the regulation of these devices, it would be forthcoming. I am sure that all parties are still willing and able to offer whatever support the Government feels that it might need if it is struggling to make the progress that we all want to see.

Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee

Continued Petitions

Meeting date: 8 June 2022

Jackson Carlaw

Mr Sweeney, do you want to come in? Mr O’Kelly has slightly anticipated the question that we might have asked.

Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee

Continued Petitions

Meeting date: 8 June 2022

Jackson Carlaw

I ask for a couple of sentences each from the parliamentary colleagues who are with us.

Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee

Continued Petitions

Meeting date: 8 June 2022

Jackson Carlaw

Maybe we should be offering them an operation while they are here, having made the journey.

Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee

Continued Petitions

Meeting date: 8 June 2022

Jackson Carlaw

Before we move on to consider other petitions, do colleagues agree to consider the evidence that we have just heard at our next meeting and to review our actions at that point?

Members indicated agreement.

Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee

Continued Petitions

Meeting date: 8 June 2022

Jackson Carlaw

That concludes this morning’s meeting. We will meet again a week today, on 15 June, when we will hear from the Minister for Parliamentary Business and the Minister for Public Finance, Planning and Community Wealth.

Meeting closed at 11:54.  

Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee

Continued Petitions

Meeting date: 18 May 2022

Jackson Carlaw

Rhoda Grant—do you have an observation or a question?

Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee

Continued Petitions

Meeting date: 18 May 2022

Jackson Carlaw

PE1895, which was lodged by Gary Wall, calls on the Scottish Parliament to urge the Scottish Government to make it mandatory for NatureScot to explain its conservation objectives in decision making within the framework of the Scottish regulators’ strategic code of practice and the Scottish Government guidance “Right First Time: a practical guide for public authorities to decision-making and the law”.

We last considered the petition on 2 February, when we agreed to write to NatureScot, asking whether it routinely provides information about its conservation objectives when rejecting licensing applications. In its response, NatureScot explained that the circumstances under which licences can be granted do not always relate to conservation objectives. It states that licence refusals are routinely issued, and that its approach is always to explain to the applicants the reasons for the refusals against the relevant legal tests.

In their recent submission, the petitioner cites case law that they believe highlights the requirement for NatureScot to balance objectives when deciding whether to grant exemptions for licensing. They also stress the requirement on NatureScot to be transparent, accountable, consistent and proportionate, and express concerns about conflicts with NatureScot’s policies and a lack of oversight and accountability.

Do members have any comments to help us advance our thinking?