Seòmar agus comataidhean

Good morning and welcome back to the final meeting of the Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee in 2022.

We considered new petitions prior to moving into private session; we now move to agenda item 5, which is consideration of continued petition PE1871, which was lodged by Karen McKeown on behalf of the shining lights for change group. The petition calls on the Scottish Parliament to urge the Scottish Government to carry out a full review of mental health services in Scotland, which should include consideration of the referral process, crisis support, risk assessments, safe plans, how integrated services work together, first response support and the support that is available to families who are affected by suicide.

The committee will recall that we heard very affecting testimony from Karen McKeown about the personal circumstances that led to the petition and the changes that she wishes to see being made to mental health services. We thank her again for lodging the petition and for taking the time to meet us.

We are joined by Humza Yousaf, who is the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care. We are also joined by officials from the Scottish Government. Hugh McAloon is director of mental health, Gavin Gray is deputy director in improving mental health services and Dr Alastair Cook is principal medical officer. Good morning thank you all for joining us to give evidence.

We are also joined by Monica Lennon MSP, who is here in support of the petition. I will invite her to contribute, subsequent to our hearing the cabinet secretary’s evidence.

Cabinet secretary, we are happy to move to questions, but I am also happy if there is anything that you would like to say to us before we begin questions.

Certainly, the initial questioning in Parliament included issues such as domestic abuse and suicide. People were concerned that the prolonged lockdown might have—in some cases, it did have—a negative impact. As you said, we are only theorising at the moment, but perhaps the fact that people’s experiences were not so different or isolating, in the sense that they were part of an experience that everybody else was sharing, made some things easier to bear or to deal with.

You may, Mr Sweeney.

That concludes our business for today. We next meet on 18 January.

I think that the witness suggested that, if a falcon went out every day and hunted one mountain hare only, we would get to the figure of 1,000. However, on the law of probabilities, that is not very high. We have just had all your colleagues here say to us that it would be very unlikely that there would be a prosecution, because an accidental hare being hunted would be such a rare event.

But you would accept that 1,000 hares, in the scenario that we have described, compared with the 26,000 to 38,000 that would be shot, is a small number.

PE1909, on removing the “gender-based crime” domestic abuse narrative and making it gender neutral and equal, was lodged by William Wright. The petition calls on the Scottish Parliament to urge the Scottish Government to make domestic abuse policies, guidance, agendas and practices gender neutral; to introduce equal domestic abuse provision and funding for everyone in Scotland, regardless of any protected characteristic; and to ensure that all domestic abuse joint protocol guidance, policies and practice for Police Scotland and the Crown Office and Prosecutor Fiscal Service are gender neutral.

At our previous consideration of the petition, the committee agreed to write to the Scottish Government, Police Scotland, the ManKind Initiative, the Paul Lavelle Foundation and Men’s Aid Ireland. The Minister for Equalities and Older People has advised that the Scottish Government is engaging and consulting on a national strategy on ending intimate and sexual violence against men and boys. She thanks the petitioner for his interest in this area of work, and notes

“the importance of developing this strategy, which will be complementary to the Equally Safe Strategy which addresses violence against women and girls.”

The ManKind Initiative says that a fully gender-informed approach should be taken to domestic abuse, and that framing it as a gender-based crime leads to unequal outcomes for male and LGBT+ victims.

Police Scotland states:

“There is no variance in the current training provided to officers on how to support victims of domestic abuse based on the victims’ specific gender.”

It outlines Abused Men in Scotland’s work on Police Scotland’s domestic abuse forum, which informs the police’s strategic direction in relation to domestic abuse. Police Scotland also reiterates that the definition of domestic abuse does not distinguish victims or perpetrators on the basis of sex or gender.

William Wright has provided us with further information about his experiences as a male victim of domestic abuse. He says that statistics on crimes committed against men contradict the view that men in Scotland have privilege that enables them to oppress others.

In view of everything that we have heard and the response from the Government and agencies that are now seeking to reach out and take the issue seriously, do colleagues have any reflections on how to proceed?

Are we agreed?

Members indicated agreement.

Yes—I think that I saw some engagement from the gallery there, so I suspect that the petitioners will be able to assist us on one or two of those issues, if the clerks wish to liaise further with them.

We are interested in taking forward the issues that the petition raises, and we have identified a fairly comprehensive range of agencies and individuals from whom we will seek further evidence that we can consider in due course. Are members content with that?

Members indicated agreement.

PE1970, which was lodged by Sharon Fairley on behalf of the Scottish Private Nurseries Association, is on the creation of an online account for parents to manage the 1,140 hours of early learning and childcare funding. It calls on the Scottish Parliament to urge the Scottish Government to reform the funding model for the 1,140 hours of early years learning and childcare to allow parents to have direct control of childcare funding via an online account.

The Scottish Parliament information centre briefing highlights:

“The Funding Follows the Child approach is intended to be ‘provider neutral’”,

which allows

“families ... to choose their preferred ELC setting”.

It notes:

“Submissions to the Education, Children and Young People Committee ... argued that some PVI providers’ funding from local authorities was not meeting the full cost of the place.”

The Scottish Government states in its submission that it consulted on the delivery of ELC and received

“some support for ELC accounts”,

but it notes that the limitations were a

“lack of certainty for private providers and local authorities; and risk of parents using funds for other things.”

The submission also notes that investment and time would be required to deliver a new system.

The National Day Nurseries Association has written to the committee and has stated its support for the action called for in the petition. It highlights discrepancies in funding between local authority ELC and other providers, and it argues that a childcare passport would provide parents with choice, flexibility and affordability. It notes that

“it is difficult for local authorities to be both funder and provider”.

Do colleagues have any comments to make or suggestions for action?