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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 21 July 2025
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Displaying 3461 contributions

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Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee

A9 Dualling Project

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Jackson Carlaw

We are back. Our colleague Oliver Mundell has had to leave us due to another commitment. I apologise for that to our colleagues and to the witnesses who now join us. I hope that you were able to hear the earlier evidence session. I see that you were. It was very interesting.

From Transport Scotland, we are now joined by Alison Irvine, interim chief executive, and Rob Galbraith, head of project delivery,. We also welcome Roy Brannen, a former chief executive of Transport Scotland, and Michelle Quinn, who is both a former director of major projects and a former interim chief executive of Transport Scotland. A very warm welcome to you all.

You will have observed our previous discussion with Grahame Barn. I want to emphasise that our inquiry has two purposes. First, we have an interest in the events that led to the delays and why we are where we are today in respect of the project. However, secondly, the aim of the petitioner is, of course, the delivery of a completed A9 route and one or two other issues, including a memorial. Our focus is very much on ensuring that we deliver on that. This is not some sort of kangaroo court of inquiry into the events of the past. We are interested in those as they reflect on where we are today and how we can ensure that we complete the project.

If everyone is content, we will move straight to questions, starting with Fergus Ewing.

Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee

A9 Dualling Project

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Jackson Carlaw

As we are on this area, I will ask a question before I come to Mr Choudhury.

The committee has received a lot of briefings, and my question partly refers to historical material that we have received. In 2021 and 2022, Transport Scotland’s cost estimates for completing the project ranged between £4.5 billion and £6.25 billion. In December, though, the cabinet secretary announced a total programme cost of £3.7 billion at 2023-24 prices. I am keen to try to understand how we have arrived at £3.7 billion, having had those two earlier cost estimates quite recently prior to that.

Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee

A9 Dualling Project

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Jackson Carlaw

Who is going to commit to the timescale? Alison Irvine has indicated that she will respond.

Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee

A9 Dualling Project

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Jackson Carlaw

Mr Galbraith, would you like to respond to that?

Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee

A9 Dualling Project

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Jackson Carlaw

My apologies. We are crossing wires.

Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee

A9 Dualling Project

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Jackson Carlaw

That was interesting. In that case, I will turn to Michelle Quinn.

Good morning. A number of projects were operating concurrently. Do you have a view as to where the A9 sat in that complexity?

Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee

A9 Dualling Project

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Jackson Carlaw

Thank you. I have a number of other questions, but I am keen to bring in colleagues. David Torrance has a question.

Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee

A9 Dualling Project

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Jackson Carlaw

It sounds as though some of the initiation for that came from within Transport Scotland.

When you say that you “updated our ministers”, I assume that you do not mean that you got rid of the ones that you did not like and got new ones. I assume that you mean that you briefed them accordingly.

I note that, at that point, Mr Neil and Mr Brown—Keith Brown—who had to manage a number of projects simultaneously, stopped being involved and Michael Matheson came in. There is a suggestion that that is when a degree of drift and delay crept into the whole project, which affected its momentum. I know that other events unfolded two years later, when we had the pandemic and everything else, but it is not clear to me whether, from the point of view of ministerial direction and oversight, there was the same degree of focus on the project as there had been up until that point.

Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee

Continued Petitions

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Jackson Carlaw

I am happy to include them in the list.

Are we content with those suggestions? If Mr Torrance can just nod his head, I will know that he is content, too.

Members indicated agreement.

Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee

Continued Petitions

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Jackson Carlaw

Thank you, Mr Choudhury. There seemed to be a gap between warm words and operational practice in Police Scotland’s approach, so those questions need to be put to it directly.

It seems that no other member wishes to comment further. Is the committee content to keep the petition open and to progress the issues with Police Scotland directly, along the lines that Mr Choudhury suggested?

Members indicated agreement.