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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 13 May 2025
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Displaying 764 contributions

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SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 20 March 2025

Murdo Fraser

I want to ask Matthew Gill about that aspect. In your 2023 report you proposed three new tests for establishing a public body, which involved considering effectiveness, independence and cost efficiency. What are your thoughts are on this issue and on the interaction with the current criteria that the Parliament has set?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 20 March 2025

Murdo Fraser

I do not want to put words in your mouth, but we are trying to extrapolate lessons for us from your research. In essence, are you saying that someone with a purely advocacy role is of limited value?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 20 March 2025

Murdo Fraser

You co-wrote a paper with Pamela Cox and Maurice Sunkin on the case for the Victims Commissioner for England and Wales. That is relevant because, right now, this Parliament is discussing a proposed victims and witnesses commissioner for Scotland. I think that the convener sits on the committee that is considering that bill, although I do not.

I read the paper with interest, and what really struck me was your conclusion. Forgive me for paraphrasing, and correct me if I have this wrong but, in effect, you put the question: if the new commissioner is not to be given statutory powers, is it really worth having him or her? For the benefit of the committee, will you elaborate a little on your thinking in reaching that conclusion?

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

New Deal for Business

Meeting date: 19 March 2025

Murdo Fraser

That leads me neatly on to my next question, which is about specific outputs. We took evidence from Leon Thompson from UK Hospitality. He said:

“Direct access to and engagement with ministers and cabinet secretaries has never really been the issue. The bit that has not always been there has been the Government’s understanding of the need to act in a way that supports our businesses. What we should be taking from the experience of the past two years and the new deal is the need for all our ministers and cabinet secretaries to be focused on economic growth and to have a clear understanding of how that fits with their portfolio responsibilities, so that everybody is moving in the same direction.”—[Official Report, Economy and Fair Work Committee, 26 February 2025; c 51.]

I am sure that you would agree with that. However, the fact that he told us that a few weeks ago suggests that he thinks that it is not happening.

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

New Deal for Business

Meeting date: 19 March 2025

Murdo Fraser

Leon Thompson from UK Hospitality.

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

New Deal for Business

Meeting date: 19 March 2025

Murdo Fraser

Good morning, cabinet secretary. Good morning, Dr Malik—it is nice to see you. Dr Malik and I shared a very interesting visit to Sidey, in Perth, for Scottish apprenticeship week. We might come back to that in a minute.

Cabinet secretary, in your opening remarks you talked about how the Government has built good, strong relationships with business. The deputy convener referenced the evidence that we got from Tony Rodgers, from Emtelle UK Ltd. Emtelle is a Scotland-headquartered manufacturing company with international operations employing hundreds of people. I will quote from the Official Report what he said to us.

“I have no interaction with the Scottish Government whatsoever. I had never heard of this new deal and had no idea about it. Quite frankly, when I have approached the Scottish Government, it has been very difficult, as a businessperson in Scotland, to make any sort of contact or inroads, or to make any kind of representation of a case.”—[Official Report, Economy and Fair Work Committee, 26 February 2025; c 2.]

That is a direct quote from what he told us. Does that suggest that there is still an issue? Emtelle is a business in the tech sector—a high-growth sector—that you would have thought should be precisely at the heart of what the Government is trying to do, yet Mr Rodgers told us that he has never even heard of the new deal.

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

New Deal for Business

Meeting date: 19 March 2025

Murdo Fraser

Let me pick one more example. As I said, Dr Malik and I took part in an interesting visit during Scottish apprenticeship week. As part of that visit—and other visits that I and the committee took part in—the issue kept being raised with us that the apprenticeship levy is paid by businesses in Scotland but they do not see the value coming back from that compared to companies operating south of the border. Is that on your agenda, cabinet secretary?

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

New Deal for Business

Meeting date: 19 March 2025

Murdo Fraser

Dr Malik, do you want to add anything?

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

New Deal for Business

Meeting date: 19 March 2025

Murdo Fraser

To be fair, Mr Rodgers told us that he would have welcomed engagement. Have you reached out to him?

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

New Deal for Business

Meeting date: 19 March 2025

Murdo Fraser

Thank you.

On that point, the Fraser of Allander Institute publishes a Scottish business monitor every year, and its most recent report, in October, told us that 9 per cent of those who responded agreed that the Scottish Government understands the business environment, whereas 62 per cent disagreed. The same survey, in October 2024, said that just 6 per cent of businesses believe that the Scottish Government engages effectively. That figure was down from 8 per cent the previous year, and there was a net figure of minus 62 per cent. That suggests that there is a gap in terms of people believing that the Government is engaging properly with businesses.