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I will give a quick response, then Euan Page, who is our resident expert on those issues, might want to come in.

In my response to Murdo Fraser, I began alluding to the big picture of whether Scotland should take a different view—in line with what we hope will be confirmed as the devolved aspects of the bill—if that could then be overridden by the 2020 internal market act. For example, if we took a different view on product legislation, and even if Scotland adopted different regulations that were passed by this Parliament and put in place, businesses or manufacturers might be able to align with English regulations and be protected by the 2020 act. That is directly relevant.

Euan might be able to add more.

We would ensure that scrutiny took place at the point when secondary legislation or delegated powers were used under the enabling power, because if that were to impinge on devolved issues, we have a process in the Scottish Parliament to allow it to be scrutinised by committees and others. Stakeholders would be able to have their views heard as well, because the Scottish Government would have to make a decision as to whether to recommend consent on each issue. That is probably the point at which scrutiny and involving stakeholders would happen.

At the moment, the bill is vague—it is a very high-level enabling bill—so it is difficult for any of us, including stakeholders, to give a view. Members can see that the definition of what is covered by the bill is high level and quite broad. We are therefore not yet in a position give clarity on that.

All that I can say at the moment is that the reason why we are determined to try to secure assurances for the Scottish Parliament and respect for devolution, under the bill, is to ensure that we avoid such scenarios. I cannot foresee how the UK Government will use the bill or enabling powers on pesticides or anything else, but we want to safeguard against such scenarios by ensuring that in relation to pesticides, which is one area that is devolved, devolution is respected under the UK bill, so that decisions are for Scottish ministers and not for UK ministers. That is all that I can say about it, at the moment.

On Northern Ireland’s relationship with the EU, members will be aware, as it has been repeated many times, that the Scottish Government—given the irony that Scotland voted against Brexit—did not get the same helpful access to the EU market as Northern Ireland has, and there is obviously a separate debate about that.

We take that into account, and we very much recognise that concern. In other parts of Government, changes have been made to give more assurance to certain sectors—for instance, the third sector—in various funds. Because the just transition fund is capital-intensive, we are very much at the behest of Jeremy Hunt, the UK Chancellor of the Exchequer, standing up and announcing the UK Government budget. We are not in the same position as the UK Government in being able to give those multiyear guarantees, but we have funded multiyear projects. In many cases, the funding in the draft budget, as well as previous funding, is going towards multiyear projects.

I take the point about looking several years ahead and the fact that there may be projects that require several years of commitment. Clearly, we are not in a position to give that just now, because of the financial constraints.

I will certainly take that point away and reflect on it. I am sure that the committee will, no doubt, raise it in its report as well. There are not necessarily any easy answers to those questions, but I assure you that we are conscious of the issue, as we have had similar feedback from groups.

If anyone has the answer on how to avoid trade-offs, I am all ears. That is something that we all struggle with and always have. Clearly, you have to take a decision at some point to open funds and work with people to make the best of what is available. There is no way of avoiding trade-offs. You mentioned that Forres, which is the most affluent ward, receives funds. The projects will benefit the whole community. Looking at it through just one lens is not always helpful. Obviously, I would have to check exactly what Moray TUC said, but you get my gist.

A lot of the projects are about tackling some of the inequalities that I mentioned at the beginning of the meeting. The just transition is about creating good green jobs and tackling some of the social ills and inequalities in society. Some people who live in energy-rich Moray cannot afford to pay their fuel bills, and we have to address such issues as part of the just transition. If some of the small local projects can help to make a difference to some local people, they are important. We have to spread that ethos throughout the country for the national transition across Scotland.

That is a good question, and it is, of course, a question that I hear often. The just transition principles are, of course, reflected in the Climate Change (Scotland) Act 2009. When I meet people, I define the just transition in as straightforward a way as I can, as a way of ensuring that the transition to net zero is managed and planned, and I explain that the measures that we take and the policies that we implement to go towards net zero are carried out in a fair way, do not leave people behind, and are co-designed with the people most affected. Clearly, creating good green jobs for people in Scotland, particularly those in the sectors that are most impacted by the transition away from fossil fuels to low-carbon technologies, is at the heart of that. Most people I have spoken to in organisations, including Aberdeen City Council, have accepted that when I have met them, and I think that there is broad agreement about the aims and general principles of the just transition.

There is always a debate, because a just transition can mean all things to all people. It is not just about jobs. Jobs are at the heart of it, but it is also about using the economic transformation that we will be going through in the coming decades between now and 2045. There is a massive window of opportunity to fix things that we do not think are right and we think are unfair in our society and economy, including fuel poverty and many other economic issues. As we go through that economic transformation, we have an opportunity to fix some of those things in our society.

I agree with a lot of the sentiment that has been expressed to the committee on the issue. I have been in the Parliament since 1999, and many people around the table have been in the Parliament for some time, so they are aware as much as I am of how quickly the agenda has changed and how the issues of the just transition and net zero have rocketed to the top of the agenda in the past few years. Society and the world are changing fast, and the debate about net zero, as we see in the daily news, is now at the forefront.

I accept that we have to measure better what we are achieving with the just transition policy in Scotland. On the just transition fund, for instance, the first couple of years have been just about getting it off the ground and going. If you go to north-east Scotland, for instance, you will see that a remarkable transformation is under way. Amazing things are happening. I am lucky: as a minister, I get to visit a lot of the places and meet the people involved, What is happening just now in north-east Scotland and other parts of the country with the fund and the many projects is hugely inspirational. It is not just about the just transition fund; there are other funds and initiatives under way in north-east Scotland that you will all be aware of from your inquiry. Things are happening, and we have to measure that.

At the moment, we have biannual reports to take stock of where we are with all the funds and the projects. I am keen to develop the next phase of that in 2024, so that we can have proper reporting in place to look at the job implications of what has been created, as well as the wider investment.

One of the issues that I have raised with officials so that we can address that is that the just transition is not just one aspect of policy or about one fund. There are lots of different sources of support and activities under way across Scotland, particularly in the north-east, at the moment to support the just transition. We have to bring that together and tell the story and then look, as a country, at where we are with the just transition.

I assure the committee that, among those projects—I am happy to make sure that this is all copied to the committee—there are some community projects, as well as business projects and big projects. It is about trying to balance being transformational with ensuring that there is change at a community level and that we have bottom-up projects. I absolutely understand that.

Those are good questions. Indeed, we touched briefly on the issue earlier, and I am determined in 2024 to try to ensure that we move forward on it. The first couple of years were focused on getting the fund up and running. If we had waited to answer some of those questions, we would rightly have been criticised for not getting the fund up and running and for taking a couple of years to sort out the processes behind the scenes. There are, of course, processes in place, but we understand that we have to show how everything is measured.

The objectives of the fund are to support the strengthening of the economy in north-east Scotland and Moray, to decarbonise and to deliver the principles of the just transition, which we have already discussed. We want the projects and how the funding is used to be co-designed, and we want a bottom-up approach in the region. That has been happening.

The just transition is about creating good green jobs as well as strengthening communities, and there is a variety of projects in that respect. I am trying to remember the name of that film—is it “Everything Everywhere All at Once”? Some people I speak to see the fund like that—that is, that it should deliver everything. You can take any subject and, perhaps, put it under the remit of the just transition fund. Of course, we have had to filter things out and make sure that the projects that are coming forward are discussed with the local enterprise companies and the local authorities. We then take a decision on what are the best projects to deliver the broad objectives of the just transition fund.