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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 2 December 2025
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Displaying 268 contributions

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COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Road to Recovery Inquiry

Meeting date: 8 December 2022

Richard Lochhead

That is one reason why the Scottish Government has allocated much more resource to mental health services in the past year or two and throughout the pandemic. As Alastair Cook said, the forthcoming mental health strategy, which will be published shortly, will take into account issues in relation to inactivity and employment.

I made the point that—this might go back to your hobby horse of data—it is difficult to make many assumptions when we have no data to back them up. As I said, Scotland has quite a long-standing issue with long-term illness, and we project that the issue will be even greater in future years. It is difficult to back up and justify homing in on one factor and saying that the figures relate directly to Covid, because of the nature of long-term illness. People can have many different illnesses.

Your key point is correct—we are looking at how to further the delivery of mental health services, because that will make longer-term savings by helping the economy and by helping people to get back to work or whatever. That is why we continue to take the issue seriously.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Road to Recovery Inquiry

Meeting date: 8 December 2022

Richard Lochhead

I am not arguing against your general point; that is something that we should continue to look at, and I am sure that there is always room for improvement. Obviously, if the committee makes recommendations along those lines, we will treat them very seriously. I welcome the fact that the committee is holding its inquiry, and if you give us some recommendations that will help us to help people and Scotland, we will definitely take them on board.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Road to Recovery Inquiry

Meeting date: 8 December 2022

Richard Lochhead

That is a very good question. My view is that we should be doing more to bring people who have taken early retirement back into the workplace, although not necessarily in full-time positions but perhaps through flexible or part-time working. We have labour shortages in Scotland, but it is not just that; we should also remember that things change and evolve. People who took early retirement, having reflected on their work-life balance and other quality of life factors during the pandemic, may be reflecting again, now that we are through the worst of the pandemic. We should take advantage of that. The cost of living crisis is also perhaps encouraging some people who took early retirement from their previous jobs to go back into the workplace to some degree—maybe part time.

We are working with Age Scotland and funding some work that it is doing to help it to train and work with managers and organisations to make their employment policies and workplaces more attractive in order to bring people in the 50 to 64 age group back into the world of work.

Early retirement is one factor that has led to the increase in inactivity in the past few years, although it has not had as much of an effect as long-term sickness. However, when we look at the data, we see that some of those who have taken early retirement have done so for specific reasons such as caring for others, including family members. It is therefore not quite as simple as saying that they are available to come back into the workplace. There are a variety of factors out there.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Road to Recovery Inquiry

Meeting date: 8 December 2022

Richard Lochhead

Yes, I do, and I think that there is ageism among many employers in Scotland. People who are aged 50 to 64—potentially older; it is up to individuals—have a lot to contribute and offer. We must tackle ageism.

Perhaps because of labour shortages and the number of vacancies, employers are now much more open-minded and willing to listen to what they can do to make their businesses more attractive to older people and to recruit those who are aged 50 to 64. I am in that age bracket myself and I have not been made unemployed or forced to take early retirement yet—although who knows what will happen. People of that age represent a huge part of the population and a fantastic resource, and we should do what we can to encourage people in that age band to come back into the workplace, if it suits their lifestyle and their personal circumstances. Your country needs you.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Road to Recovery Inquiry

Meeting date: 8 December 2022

Richard Lochhead

Yes, and I will take the message away from the committee that we have to focus on working with employers more to encourage them to tap into the support that is made available by the public sector. The Scottish Government is funding various initiatives, and there are agencies working on that. Resources are available through primary care and, in some cases for employers, through occupational health and other channels.

At a time of labour shortages, it is in the interest of employers to look at all of the options that are available and at the support that is out there for them. We need to help employers and ensure that the NHS provision is there, as well.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Road to Recovery Inquiry

Meeting date: 8 December 2022

Richard Lochhead

Yes, it includes a lot more than the real living wage. One other key additional measure that we are looking for employers to adopt is offering employees flexible working from day 1. More and more employers are doing that. Scotland has more accredited employers who have signed up to fair work criteria than the rest of the UK. We are making good progress on the fair work agenda, which is more important than ever before. Because of the cost of living crisis, we want more people to have the real living wage, and because of labour shortages, we want more employers to be more flexible so that they can attract people back into the workplace, particularly those in the 50 to 64 age group who have taken early retirement.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Road to Recovery Inquiry

Meeting date: 8 December 2022

Richard Lochhead

That is a good question. I was discussing it with colleagues, because I anticipated the question, but I am not sure that I have a precise answer for you. It is clear that there is a very serious situation facing the NHS in Scotland. It is under huge pressure; we are all familiar with the reasons for that. There is no doubt, therefore, that there are people who are unable to work because they are waiting for treatment. However, it is difficult to get evidence to back up that point, because the statistics on inactivity in Scotland relate largely, as we have seen, to long-term illness and sickness. Indeed, the increase in the proportion of people who are inactive with long-term illness was beginning before the pandemic, so it is difficult to link it directly to the pandemic or to back up the point that Murdo Fraser makes.

Of course there will be people in Scotland who are currently unable to get treatment as quickly as they would like because of the pressures on the NHS and who are therefore unable to return to work. They may be on sick leave but, as I said, the inactivity figures are largely down to long-term illness and people who have a combination of long-term illnesses, not just one condition.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Road to Recovery Inquiry

Meeting date: 8 December 2022

Richard Lochhead

We take that into account. The Cabinet Secretary for Finance and the Economy and others are probably a bit closer to that work than I am, but overall we look at how we can support people in getting back into work or education. That includes support through the national health service—for instance, through the expansion of mental health services or occupational health support. The Government makes that support available, but we also need support for employers and—you mentioned young people—educational institutions. That is all taken into account in the round. The Government wants a healthy working population, and that is why those services are made available.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Road to Recovery Inquiry

Meeting date: 8 December 2022

Richard Lochhead

There is more than £50 million in the no one left behind strategy. That is not including fair start Scotland—there is more than £80 million overall. The money is allocated to each of the partnerships across all 32 local authorities. The money is held by local government, but it is not for local government to invest or spend; it is for the partnerships to agree how that money will be allocated locally to commission local services. In my constituency, the local employability partnership is called Moray Pathways. Every other area of the country will have its own way of approaching it.

I am encouraged by the development of those partnerships. I have visited the partnership in Renfrew, I think it was, and in the Shetlands and two or three other partnerships across the country, and it is heartening to see how local authorities are approaching this, because you go into a hub and there are different services within the hub.

To go back to Alex Rowley’s question, those hubs are good one-stop shops for the public to use, and some mental health support, counselling or other services can be brought in to that one location. I think that clients are finding it really helpful to have that one-stop shop approach. Not all local authorities are doing that, but some of them are being very innovative and forward thinking in doing that. It is a decentralised, devolved way of approaching employability services.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Road to Recovery Inquiry

Meeting date: 8 December 2022

Richard Lochhead

The short answer is yes, in that the data guides us to the mental health services and support that we are delivering. I gave examples of how we are helping employers, so that they in turn can help employees. There are many different ways in which the NHS is responding to the mental health crisis, and there has been a huge expansion of resource for that.

Alastair Cook may know more about the data and how we use it in detail.