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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 2 December 2025
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Displaying 268 contributions

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Economy and Fair Work Committee

Just Transition (North-east and Moray)

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

Richard Lochhead

It is clear that times are quite tough just now—we are all aware of that. I can very much understand the frustration in communities. Energy prices are rocketing. Communities are surrounded by energy resources, and they cannot quite square why they are paying through the nose for energy bills and the contradiction there. I hear and understand the frustrations from community representatives and, indeed, members of the communities whom I meet.

However, we have begun to address that. Of course, the test will be when people see and feel change in society and in their communities. There are many projects under way now—energy efficiency, renewables and various other projects that have come forward—that will, I think, deliver visible change in communities. There is a bottom-up aspect to a just transition; it is not just a top-down process. At its heart, a just transition comes from the bottom up.

The participatory budgeting has been a success. I think that 10,000 people voted in the first year and 19,000 people voted for local projects in the second year. That is nearly a 100 per cent increase. Slowly but surely, more people are engaging in the just transition debates, activities and projects, and expressing an interest. We have to build on that. Participatory budgeting is committed to throughout the Parliament as part of the just transition funds. However, we need transformational projects, and we need transformation that people can see and feel.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Just Transition (North-east and Moray)

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

Richard Lochhead

Kevin Stewart makes a powerful point. We are open and transparent. Everything is in the public domain in terms of who receives the moneys and grants and of the various projects that are being supported. However, clearly, there is a communication challenge. If that is your experience, I am sure that it is not the only example. I often speak to people who are suspicious of £X going to businesses and not community groups. There are, obviously, some tensions in that debate. I have to explain that, if we are going to transform the economy, we have to work with the business community and support big transformational projects that will potentially create hundreds, if not thousands, of jobs in the coming years. We cannot achieve that transformation without supporting such projects, but, likewise, we want to support smaller projects and communities. I understand that people want full transparency and to understand the rationale behind those decisions.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Just Transition (North-east and Moray)

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

Richard Lochhead

I agree that we have to get it right, and I will certainly reflect on your points. As I said, as we go through the just transition process, there are a couple of communication challenges. One is about ensuring that everyone is aware of how the fund is working and making a difference in north-east Scotland and Moray. Secondly, a lot of other activities are happening in Scotland just now that support just transition. We have to bring that together to get the big picture and tell the full story. I am very keen to pursue those two aspects this year.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Just Transition (North-east and Moray)

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

Richard Lochhead

We have £75 million that we would otherwise not have had, had we not had the just transition fund just for north-east Scotland and Moray. It is a fund that is not available from the UK Government; it is from the Scottish Government, so it is an added value fund.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Just Transition (North-east and Moray)

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

Richard Lochhead

It is probably best if I write to you with the latest timelines for all those plans.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Just Transition (North-east and Moray)

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

Richard Lochhead

UK decisions are clearly fundamental to the just transition. We saw the recent change in the offer to offshore wind projects, which the UK Government had to revisit after there was a lack of applications for offshore wind sites in recent licensing rounds. In light of that lack of applications, the UK Government took a decision to address that to encourage more offshore wind licence applications.

The UK Government’s spending priorities influence hugely the ability to implement a just transition in Scotland. Just now, the Scottish Government is dealing with a difficult budget settlement, which impacts on what we can invest in all kinds of just transition activities and the net zero agenda—that is well documented. The Cabinet, First Minister and others have made lots of comment on that.

Yes, as a general principle, the UK Government’s funding decisions, which are often not helpful, have a direct impact on the ability to deliver a just transition in Scotland.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Just Transition (North-east and Moray)

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

Richard Lochhead

Of course, and there are examples. We would not support nuclear power in Scotland. We would put the billions of investment that would go into that from the public purse into renewables, green technologies and the net zero agenda. There are clearly massive differences in some areas of policy north and south of the border and between the UK Government and the Scottish Government. Perhaps “wildly different” is one way of describing it. It is interesting that external bodies are now taking that view.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Just Transition (North-east and Moray)

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

Richard Lochhead

I can speak to what is happening in the Government and, to a certain extent, the public sector, but, clearly, just transition is a concept and an approach that has to be adopted by all parts of society. It is not for Government alone; it is for the business community, local community groups and local government, as well as for the wider public sector and the Scottish Government.

In the Scottish Government, all ministers and cabinet secretaries are engaged in delivering a just transition through their own portfolios. As we take forward the various plans, which we may come on to in further questions, each minister and cabinet secretary is responsible for them. It is not me or the cabinet secretary, Màiri McAllan, who is solely responsible for taking them forward. The knocking down of the silos and cross-Government working will, I hope, move forward in a positive way.

A lot of the challenges that you have mentioned, such as trying to knock down the silos and trying to get everyone working together in one direction, are applicable to society in general and not only to the just transition. I absolutely understand how communities can get frustrated when they do not see those things happening.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Just Transition (North-east and Moray)

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

Richard Lochhead

We saw the furore that there was when the UK Prime Minister, Rishi Sunak, recently backtracked on some of his climate commitments. We would not have done that backtracking if we had a say on some of those policy areas. There is obviously divergence in some areas and we just have to continue to work with the UK Government to persuade it to invest in the right priorities and to give Scotland a decent budget settlement to enable us to fulfil our responsibilities to deliver a just transition in Scotland.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Just Transition (North-east and Moray)

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

Richard Lochhead

There are projects in which just transition funding is just one part of their funding, and there has been collaboration with outside investors, as well. The fund plays a valuable role in that context, and the enterprise agencies and local authorities are working closely with the Scottish Government. We consult them closely on all the projects that are funded through the just transition fund. I have no doubt that there is more work that we could do to ensure that the momentum continues with that collaboration and joint funding of projects. Again, we will continue to reflect on that. There are some good examples out there.