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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 8 July 2025
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Displaying 2389 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 September 2024

Mark Ruskell

Are there any other brief comments on that?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 September 2024

Mark Ruskell

What would that look like? Would there be a requirement in the plan to deal with public participation and engagement? As I mentioned, the 2019 act had at its heart a specific requirement for a citizens assembly, but that is only one way to cut it with regard to public engagement. I am interested in your thoughts about how we cement public engagement in the plan as we move forward.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 September 2024

Mark Ruskell

I want to pin things down a bit more. Are you saying that you would be happy for a draft budget to be presented alongside a draft plan, because you cannot finalise a plan until you have finalised a budget? There is a chicken-and-egg element. What is helpful when you are making decisions about the budget in line with the action that might be possible, without plans being completely finalised ahead of setting the budget, if you know what I mean? It is very much a chicken-and-egg situation.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 September 2024

Mark Ruskell

Yes. I want to ask Cornilius Chikwama about Audit Scotland’s view on where the Scottish Government is. Audit Scotland produced a report some time ago that looked at the need for effective assurance, enhanced governance and workforce planning within the director general for net zero’s area. This meeting is an opportunity to reflect on whether governance is set up correctly in relation to the bill. Does Audit Scotland have concerns about progress in that regard, or are you content with the fact that the Government is taking on the reforms that you have highlighted?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2024

Mark Ruskell

I am wondering where the big mystery is with the climate change plan. The UK Climate Change Committee has given the Government advice for a number of years. It has set out what the pathway to 2045 looks like. You have had annual advice from the UK CCC. What it will present next spring will not focus primarily on the next climate change plan but on the plans to follow on the route to 2045. What is the gap? What is the big mystery? Surely the Government must have already mapped out the pathway towards the next target and the next budget. It will have a clear idea about what actions are needed in particular sectors, from transport to agriculture to energy. As you say, none of that is a mystery.

Given that this is a living document—a living piece of work in Government—why can it not be shared with the committee ahead of our effectively changing the legislation, ditching the 2030 and 2040 targets and moving to a completely new system of budget setting? Why can that not be revealed? What is the big mystery here?

11:30  

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2024

Mark Ruskell

I am seeing nods. Would anybody like to elaborate on that?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2024

Mark Ruskell

No—the evidence has been excellent.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2024

Mark Ruskell

We had evidence last week from the Scottish Fiscal Commission, which pointed to the need to line up the financial budgets with the action plans and the technical pathway that has been set out by the CCC. Do you think that there has been a real disconnect between action and budget over the past five years?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2024

Mark Ruskell

But you already said in your opening statement that, in order to meet the 2030 target, you would have had to adopt some policies that were neither fair nor just. Therefore, you have already made decisions about what you, as a Government, consider to be beyond the pale and undeliverable. Now that those have been junked and are no longer part of your thinking on the climate change plan, you must have a pretty tight set of actions that you think are deliverable and which you could share with the committee now, so that we can assess whether they are appropriate.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2024

Mark Ruskell

Basically, my question is this: is this approach going to be mainstreamed in Government by next year?