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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 5 September 2025
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Displaying 3036 contributions

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Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Mark Ruskell

On the back of that, I am interested in your thoughts on just transition. There are sectors of the economy that will have to change substantially, such as scallop dredging inshore and livestock production in areas where, if there was herbivore reduction, we could see large-scale nature restoration and woodland creation. There are difficult economic issues about how those sectors will transition away from what they are currently doing and take the jobs and skills with them—with people and with communities.

Is there enough of a focus? I think that one of the subject areas for targets that was dropped was citizen engagement, which, for me, is about just transition. There are some thorny issues in here around action and what prevents action. I am interested in your perspectives, looking at environmental change as academics, on where you see that societal change process and how you facilitate that—or is that more of a subject for colleagues in other departments?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Mark Ruskell

Okay, but this is not a bill about environmental governance; it does not touch on environmental courts or other routes to justice. There is nothing in the bill on that subject—there are no powers in it around that.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Mark Ruskell

So, you have not had anything back from the minister. It is probably a question that we need to ask him when he appears before us.

I want to ask about the targets that are there. With regard to the marine environment, it is quite easy to make designations, but it is a very different thing to put in place the action to enforce them and to change behaviour, particularly in relation to fishing and similar operations. I am interested in your thoughts on the mismatch between making designations over a lot of Scotland but then not following through with action. Do we have the right to enforce that action on the back of designation, or are we just going to sit there looking at a whole lot of lines on the map and think, “Great, we’ve done it”? Beth Scott, do you want to come in on this? It is a pertinent issue with regard to the marine environment.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Mark Ruskell

So, people are working within the constraints that designation provides.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Mark Ruskell

Do you think that will come out of the bill?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Mark Ruskell

Does that assessment process work? There is an assessment of whether there is an alternative, and then there is an assessment of whether an impact can be mitigated. After that, as you say, you get down to the question of whether it is still in the public interest that the development should go ahead. Is that working? Clearly, the bill gives ministers the opportunity to try something different. I am coming back to your earlier point. Is there a need to change this bit of the law? I am interested in your thoughts on that.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Mark Ruskell

Does anyone else have thoughts on section 3(b)?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Mark Ruskell

So, is the concern about the breadth of that consistency? It could be about having submissions in PDF format or it could be about a fundamental reform.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Mark Ruskell

The purpose in section 3(c) is to

“ensure consistency or compatibility with other legal regimes”.

You have mentioned some of the changes in other parts of the UK, with environmental outcome reports and so on. Do you have thoughts about that purpose? Is that a good purpose for changing things right now?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Mark Ruskell

That is an option, so ministers could decide—