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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 14 September 2025
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Displaying 2435 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Grangemouth (Project Willow)

Meeting date: 13 May 2025

Mark Ruskell

Thank you very much—that is very useful.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Mark Ruskell

I would like to go into a little bit more detail in this area. You will be aware that section 3 of the bill spells out the purposes for which ministers might use powers to amend both the EIA legislation and the habitats regulations. As you have already alluded to, the purposes, which are covered in sections 3(a) to 3(f), are pretty extensive, and I want to ask about a couple of them.

The purpose that is set out in section 3(b), which you have already touched on, is

“to facilitate progress toward any statutory target relating to the environment, climate or biodiversity that applies in Scotland ... including, in particular ... net zero”.

I am interested in getting some more thoughts on that, particularly in relation to the way that the habitats regulations currently operate, because I understand that a public interest test can be applied in that regard. I am interested in your thoughts generally on that purpose and on how the habitats regulations interpret other existential environmental concerns, such as climate change, and how that public interest test works. Does it work, or is there a case for reform? Is there an inherent conflict with what Governments are trying to do in relation to climate and nature?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Mark Ruskell

On the back of that, I am interested in your thoughts on just transition. There are sectors of the economy that will have to change substantially, such as scallop dredging inshore and livestock production in areas where, if there was herbivore reduction, we could see large-scale nature restoration and woodland creation. There are difficult economic issues about how those sectors will transition away from what they are currently doing and take the jobs and skills with them—with people and with communities.

Is there enough of a focus? I think that one of the subject areas for targets that was dropped was citizen engagement, which, for me, is about just transition. There are some thorny issues in here around action and what prevents action. I am interested in your perspectives, looking at environmental change as academics, on where you see that societal change process and how you facilitate that—or is that more of a subject for colleagues in other departments?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Mark Ruskell

Okay, but this is not a bill about environmental governance; it does not touch on environmental courts or other routes to justice. There is nothing in the bill on that subject—there are no powers in it around that.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Mark Ruskell

So, you have not had anything back from the minister. It is probably a question that we need to ask him when he appears before us.

I want to ask about the targets that are there. With regard to the marine environment, it is quite easy to make designations, but it is a very different thing to put in place the action to enforce them and to change behaviour, particularly in relation to fishing and similar operations. I am interested in your thoughts on the mismatch between making designations over a lot of Scotland but then not following through with action. Do we have the right to enforce that action on the back of designation, or are we just going to sit there looking at a whole lot of lines on the map and think, “Great, we’ve done it”? Beth Scott, do you want to come in on this? It is a pertinent issue with regard to the marine environment.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Mark Ruskell

So, people are working within the constraints that designation provides.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Mark Ruskell

Do you think that will come out of the bill?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Mark Ruskell

Does that assessment process work? There is an assessment of whether there is an alternative, and then there is an assessment of whether an impact can be mitigated. After that, as you say, you get down to the question of whether it is still in the public interest that the development should go ahead. Is that working? Clearly, the bill gives ministers the opportunity to try something different. I am coming back to your earlier point. Is there a need to change this bit of the law? I am interested in your thoughts on that.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Mark Ruskell

Does anyone else have thoughts on section 3(b)?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Mark Ruskell

So, is the concern about the breadth of that consistency? It could be about having submissions in PDF format or it could be about a fundamental reform.