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Perhaps the minister is sensing concerns across the committee that, despite action in sectors such as construction having been identified years ago as being important, Governments have not followed that through into waste route maps and programmes of work. Perhaps she is sensing frustration across the committee that despite construction being an area of significant resource use with a significant impact when it comes to climate change, there is a concern that the Government as a whole has not moved effectively to prioritise it. Clearly, a discussion is to be had between now and stage 3 on what action from the whole Government looks like, and what reassurances the Government can give committee members, across parties, that such action will follow.

I recognise that the minister is very new in post.

Will Maurice Golden confirm that the bill does not need new powers for the development of refillables and refillable schemes in Scotland? As I understand it, those powers are in the Environment Act 2021. Is that not right? We therefore do not need more legislation. However, I accept his desire for more refillable schemes to come forward.

Hang on a minute—let me finish the sentence.

It will take more than six months to develop a strategy around construction and for the strategy to move into sectors in which there perhaps has not been that focus or development over time. I will leave my comments there.

I accept that Graham Simpson wants to put other options on the table, but we have also heard in the debate that there are sectors, such as construction, in which there has not been enough significant progress. To be honest, that will take time. It will take more than six months to—

That is useful to know. Are we hitting the buffers in that regard now, or are you anticipating that there will be problems with ferries being taken off routes in the next year or two?

When reflecting on Stephen Kelly’s comments, I was thinking in particular about Cairnryan. What practical changes might be needed in how Cairnryan operates its facilities? I note that there will be no border at Cairnryan, but, given where we are with border checks and agreements, what might need to change to meet your members’ needs at Cairnryan in the future?

It is useful for the committee to hear such practical, real-world concerns.

I thank Tess White for bringing to the chamber this important debate. Of course, it is not a new debate, and there are many lessons from history. After the second world war, Tom Johnston brought hydro power to the glens for the first time, which led to dramatic economic progress and improved quality of life for so many communities. It would be wrong to assume, however, that that progress came with no cost. Some communities were abandoned, and pristine rivers were damaged—some, such as the River Garry, are starting to recover only now.

There will always be a balance to be struck between national energy needs, local and global environmental impacts and the need for communities to have a stake in both decision making and the economic rewards of projects.

In more recent times, the Beauly to Denny power line upgrade—which, I believe, was consented by Mr Ewing—has left us with many lessons. The debates from 18 years ago are now being rerun all over again with the SSEN programme. I will reflect on some of those debates, in which I was involved at the time.

First, there were arguments that no grid upgrades were needed, and that wind farms would never be built. However, today, we have to accept the reality that the Beauly to Denny scheme was needed, that it led to the construction of onshore wind farms, and that those wind farms have slashed the climate impact of electricity while benefiting communities across the UK through lower electricity generation costs.

Lord Callanan, the Conservative UK Minister for Energy Efficiency and Green Finance, was absolutely right when he said:

“we need to build about four times as much transmission infrastructure by 2030 as we built in the previous 30 years.”—[Official Report, House of Lords, 29 February 2024; Vol 836, c 193GC.]

The missed 2030 climate target reminds us that there is no path to net zero, in Scotland or the UK, without a massive switch from fossil fuels to electricity for both transport and heating. The reality is that the bulk of that can come only from renewable energy, and the new transmission lines will be required to get that energy to where it is needed.

I do not have much time to respond to that; a three-hour debate on this issue would be fantastic. There are certainly lessons to be learned from the Beauly to Denny line about early engagement with developers. In this case, of course, it goes through a different consenting process from the one that local authorities are engaged with. The critical issue here is early engagement, and I will come on to more points about that later, if I have time.

Secondly, reflecting on the Beauly to Denny line, some people acknowledged the national need for grid upgrades but believed that undergrounding was a panacea—out of sight, out of mind, shove it all underground. I wish that that were the case, because there will undoubtedly be a landscape impact from new pylon lines. They are not pretty, but digging a motorway-sized trench through sensitive landscapes and farmland and across rivers and streams causes environmental damage, leads to vulnerability of supply and requires vastly more expensive infrastructure—that is just a reality.

Thirdly, in relation to the Beauly to Denny line, some communities accepted the need for pylon upgrades and reluctantly accepted that complete undergrounding might not be feasible but successfully negotiated changes with developers. They not only won route alterations but managed to secure other improvements, including the removal of existing infrastructure such as substations.

I am pleased that there appears to be some progress in the negotiations around the current SSEN programme, just as there was with the Beauly to Denny project, but it is clear that the developers need to go further. They need to double down on their work with communities and find compromises that are not going to be welcomed by everybody but will become more acceptable.

My final point is about mitigation. The long, drawn-out and bitter public inquiry into the Beauly to Denny project led to years of wrangling before a programme could be agreed and delivered. We cannot afford another four-year public inquiry process with the SSEN programme. These projects must be delivered faster if we are to make progress. Communities cannot wait for funding for landscape mitigation to come years after the event.

If there is time in hand, I will give way to Mr Carson.