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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 12 December 2025
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Displaying 4005 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

McCloud Remedy

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Good morning and welcome to the 33rd meeting in 2025 of the Finance and Public Administration Committee. We have apologies from Craig Hoy, who is unable to attend the committee meeting today. We have also been joined by Clare Adamson, who has an interest in this particular issue.

The first item on our agenda is an evidence session with the Scottish Public Pensions Agency on the delivery of the McCloud remedy in Scotland. We are joined by the following witnesses from the Scottish Public Pensions Agency: Dr Stephen Pathirana, chief executive officer; Frances Graham, chief transformation officer; and Iain Coltman, head of pensions policy. I welcome our witnesses to the meeting and invite Dr Pathirana to make a short opening statement.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

McCloud Remedy

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Kenneth Gibson

What I am saying is, given the huge number of people involved, are you trying to at least get the easy ones off your desk?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

McCloud Remedy

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Are you saying that a lot of the police are five to 10-minute cases, whereas others are taking eight hours?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

McCloud Remedy

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Kenneth Gibson

You have increased from 300 staff members to 400, but you have gone from 12,000 cases a year to this monumental number. Your staff are clearly having to be considerably more productive than perhaps they were before. I do not want to be facetious, but you are talking about a huge amount of additional work. It does not seem to me that you have all the people you need. Is that fair to say?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

McCloud Remedy

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Kenneth Gibson

As colleagues are keen to come in, I will not continue to hog the questioning, but I just want to tell you what someone wrote to me. This is someone from Fife, so she is not one of my own constituents, but what she has said shows the human impact of this. She says:

“I have been (early) retired from teaching since August 2022 and have had no choices yet ... at the rate of pace shown in the latest FOI request ... I’ll be at least 124 years old if the process isn’t speeded up!

I’m a widow on a meagre pension”

with three sons at university, two of whom are studying to be doctors. She goes on to say:

“I am supplementing my income and my financial support for my sons during university ... with my husband’s life insurance payout—he died seven years ago ... I urge you, please, not to allow SPPA to fob you off with words like ‘complex’, ‘update’, ‘apology’ ... instead to encourage a mindset of ‘here’s what we can do to give those pensioners the money they are due’.

I cannot put into words how frustrating and helpless I feel and how much anger each update and apology brings.”

She also says:

“the interest payments of 8% would be lower and the complaints department ... would not be as busy”

if the matter was resolved early.

That woman is giving you her personal view. I think, from what you have said this morning, that she will not be 124 years old by the time the process is finished, but you can hear the exasperation, and it is going to take at least another two years, perhaps.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

McCloud Remedy

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Indeed, but it is all about what goes out the door at the end of the day. It is not about saying, “Some cases take five minutes, and others take hours.” If there are 105,000 cases and you are processing 1,000 a week, you do not have to be a mathematician to say that it will take two years. If you are processing 1,500, it will take a year and a half. I am just wondering where we are on that. People out there who want this process to be concluded are looking for some kind of hope and resolution, and this would at least let them know that the sausage machine was progressing at this or that rate.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

McCloud Remedy

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Yes, but if you know that you are going to be 40 per cent of the way through by that time, and you know how many people are in the cohort, surely you know how many you need to progress each week to reach that figure.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

McCloud Remedy

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Are we talking about across the UK?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

McCloud Remedy

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you very much for that. I will now open up the session.

10:30  

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

McCloud Remedy

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you to colleagues around the table for their questions and thank you for your evidence, Dr Pathirana. Do you want to make any further points before we wind up the session?