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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 22 March 2026
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Displaying 4779 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 28 October 2025

Kenneth Gibson

I want to thank you both. The committee appreciates your professionalism, your expertise and the time that you have surrendered to give evidence to us today. It is much appreciated and your evidence will certainly be included in our report. Thank you both very much, gentlemen.

I suspend the meeting for five minutes to allow a changeover of witnesses and to give members a break.

10:41 Meeting suspended.  

10:47 On resuming—  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 28 October 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you very much for that. You used the term “last resort”. What would you consider to be a last resort?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 28 October 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Although you said that people are kept within budget, you talked earlier on about how the two-year timeframe can be extended. Is that the same for budgets—but that it is unlikely and does not happen often?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 28 October 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Maybe aye, maybe no.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Building Safety Levy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 October 2025

Kenneth Gibson

I completely agree with you, but there is an issue with the scrutiny. Someone—the clerk of works, or whoever—has to check that the work has been implemented to the correct standard.

Two years down the line from a development in my constituency—I will not say which one—being fully occupied, we suddenly found out that the sewerage system had not been installed to the required standard, which is causing issues, as you can imagine. It is not just about having the regulations but about ensuring that they are fully implemented.

Mr Drummond, you said:

“Firstly, Scotland needs to preserve and build upon its existing public sector building control system. Secondly, procurement must be very substantially improved to ensure higher quality in construction.”

How do we do that? Do we have the people with the skills to do that? Is that quality out there? What lead time did you have in mind for implementing that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Building Safety Levy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 October 2025

Kenneth Gibson

In that case, I thank you for your evidence this morning, which is very helpful to the committee in its deliberations.

10:29 Meeting suspended.  

10:54 On resuming—  

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 7 October 2025

Kenneth Gibson

The final item on our agenda is to take evidence on the cost-effectiveness of Scottish public inquiries. I welcome to the meeting Patrick McGuire of Thompsons Solicitors Scotland. Good morning, Mr McGuire, and thank you for your written submission. I want to express how glad I am that you accepted the invitation to give evidence—it is greatly appreciated by the committee.

We will move straight to questions. I will start by quoting a question that was raised by Professor Cameron, who was one of the first people to give evidence on this matter. You may have seen what he said:

“It has to be recognised that inquiries are a source of substantial income for some large legal firms and as such the question arises as to the extent to which they are motivated to keep costs to a minimum and within budget.”

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 7 October 2025

Kenneth Gibson

You must have known that it was coming up—come on.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 7 October 2025

Kenneth Gibson

I understand—we just have a lot to get round. My question was very long, and I apologise for that, too.

Some witnesses have told us that a number of things can be done to make inquiries more efficient and effective, such as having a proper secretariat that has built up some institutional memory of how inquiries are successfully conducted, instead of having to reinvent the wheel, as we seem to do with every inquiry.

Tens of thousands of documents often have to be duplicated, but why does a trained lawyer have to do that? Can it be done by a paralegal or someone else? Would that reduce the cost? Apparently, it has a significant impact on the overall cost of any inquiry to have qualified lawyers copying 100,000 documents. All that I am saying is that, even with the system that we have and even if you accept that the system as it is should continue, there must be ways of reducing the costs to the public purse. After all, the cost of an inquiry might ultimately mean fewer officers on the street. It does have an impact.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Building Safety Levy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 October 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Mr Henderson, do you also find that to be the case?