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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 16 June 2025
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Displaying 3407 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Good morning, and welcome to the 18th meeting in 2025 of the Finance and Public Administration Committee.

The first item on our agenda is evidence on the latest cost estimates for the Care Reform (Scotland) Bill from Maree Todd, Minister for Social Care, Mental Wellbeing and Sport. She is joined today by John Paul Liddle, deputy director, national care service; Ryan Anderson, head of the digital health and care policy and strategy unit; and Lee Flannigan, head of national care service finance at the Scottish Government. I welcome you all to the meeting and invite the minister to make a short opening statement.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Kenneth Gibson

I am not sure that “nihilistic” is the right word. Perhaps “pessimistic”—or, more likely, “realistic”.

The Scottish Government is providing a really good offer for carers. We are talking about an average of four weeks’ respite care per carer per year, of which 65 per cent is assumed to be residential care for the person being cared for, with the remainder being intensive home care at 22 hours a week. However, how many staff will that require by 2031-32, and where will we find them? It brings us back to the very beginning and what the bill is all about. As I mentioned a few minutes ago, it is trying to ensure equitable delivery of services across Scotland to the requisite standard. However, we cannot do that without people. How many people are you expecting to recruit over the next six years?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Kenneth Gibson

That has exhausted questions from committee members, but I have a brief question for each of you on areas that we have not touched on. The first is for you, Mr Pugh.

Interestingly, the Scottish Parliament information centre briefing that committee members received states that 45 per cent of an inquiry’s time is spent on producing the report. Is there any way in which that process could be expedited?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Kenneth Gibson

My second question is for you, Ms Dunlop. Should Government departments and public bodies be required to respond formally to recommendations within a set timeframe?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Kenneth Gibson

What might be a reasonable timeframe in which to respond to a report?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Kenneth Gibson

But does that sound to you like a conflict of interest?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Kenneth Gibson

The supplementary FM states:

“The amended section does not specify the sort of provision that regulations are to make about independent information, advice and advocacy in relation to social care and therefore the potential cost implications of those regulations are wide”.

How wide?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Kenneth Gibson

That has exhausted questions from the committee. I have only a couple more. The first is about Anne’s law, which you touched on. You said:

“It is expected that there will be some costs for care home providers and those supporting care homes, to promote and champion Anne’s Law through staff and provider awareness sessions, formal training, updating visiting policies including the identification of the Essential Care Supporter and for printing leaflets and other administration.”

You then went on to say those would be

“absorbed within the usual costs of following current guidance around named visitor policy”

and so on. Surely, if there are additional responsibilities and training, additional costs will be involved.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Kenneth Gibson

In the previous memorandum, there were specific sections on IT. Mention has been made of the fact that we are somehow expected to read the two previous financial memorandums in conjunction with the financial update. Would it not be easier to have one comprehensive document that laid out all the costs, as the committee requested some weeks ago? What is the point in looking at what the costs were projected to be in 2022 or 2023? That needs to be put to one side. We want to know what the position is as we go forward, and one comprehensive, easy-to-access document that included IT as a component would provide that.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Kenneth Gibson

That is a worry, but I shall leave it at that.

I will give the minister the final word. Are there any further points that you wish to relay to the committee before I wind up the session?