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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 14 May 2025
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Displaying 3259 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 1 October 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Jamie Robertson, because of prudential borrowing, local authorities have greater flexibility in borrowing than the Scottish Government does. There has been a significant reduction in borrowing from £1.23 billion in 2019-20 to £690 million in 2021-22, with a slight up-kick to £820 million in 2022-23. The figures for last year are not in your submission, but it says:

“Councils have found themselves in a position of having to place greater reliance on borrowing as a source of capital funding to sustain and invest in their infrastructure to meet the needs and priorities of communities and boost local economies.”

Clearly, there is greater reliance on borrowing. Do you feel that that will continue to be the case and that borrowing will have to play a bigger role, or will there be a reduction in borrowing across local authorities, as there has been in the past three or four years?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 17 September 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Right, okay.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 17 September 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Good morning, and welcome to the 26th meeting in 2024 of the Finance and Public Administration Committee. We have apologies from John Mason this morning.

Our first agenda item is a round-table discussion on managing Scotland’s public finances, a strategic approach, as part of our pre-budget scrutiny. I welcome to the meeting Allan Faulds, senior policy officer, Health and Social Care Alliance Scotland, which is known as the ALLIANCE; Alice Telfer, head of business policy and public sector, Institute of Chartered Accountants Scotland; Euan Lochhead, architect and retrofit co-ordinator, North East Scotland Retrofit Hub; Lewis Ryder-Jones, advocacy advisor, Oxfam Scotland; Michael Kellet, director of strategy, governance and performance, Public Health Scotland; David Melhuish, director, Scottish Property Federation; and Heather Williams, training lead and member of the women’s economic empowerment project, Scottish Women’s Budget Group. Unfortunately, Dave Moxham, deputy general secretary, Scottish Trades Union Congress, who was due to participate, is no longer able to attend.

Thank you all for your written submissions, which gave me a very enjoyable Saturday and Sunday of reading. We have around 90 minutes for this session. If witnesses would like to be brought into the discussion at any point, please indicate to the clerks and then I will call you. It is not a case of my just asking various questions of individuals. I am hoping for—as it says on the tin—a round-table discussion. As Allan Faulds already knows, I will put my first question to him, and then anyone who wants to come in should let me know. I will take people in the order that I see them indicate. I hope that we will get quite an informed discussion.

I will, if things start getting stuck, move on the discussion. Topics wise, we will go from taxation and growing the tax base to public service reform, potential behavioural response and capital expenditure, just as it says on the tin. I will try to involve every person who has given a submission on a topic as often as possible—that is, as often as you wish to come in.

Allan Faulds, in your written response to the first question in our consultation about the Scottish Government and its priorities, you said that you are quite happy with its priorities of eradicating child poverty, tackling the climate emergency and improving public services. However, you said:

“we believe that the priority of ‘growing the economy’ represents a step backwards in the Scottish Government’s approach to the economy.”

Given your submission and your reference to increasing public expenditure in a number of areas, how you can square that circle?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 17 September 2024

Kenneth Gibson

I turn to Allan Faulds.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Proposed National Outcomes

Meeting date: 17 September 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Alison?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 17 September 2024

Kenneth Gibson

I think that you would have an uphill struggle convincing the voters of that. I have to be honest.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 17 September 2024

Kenneth Gibson

I think that the Scottish Government is optimistic that that might change after the budget on 30 October. However, as has been pointed out, we already have a five-year 20 per cent reduction in capital, so there will inevitably be reductions here, there and probably just about everywhere.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 17 September 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you.

David, I note that, on public service reform, you have said:

“there is a widespread lack of resource, capacity and ultimately, delivery.”

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 17 September 2024

Kenneth Gibson

I note that you got that comment about higher fees in. I call Lewis Ryder-Jones, to be followed by Jamie Halcro Johnston.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 17 September 2024

Kenneth Gibson

It is also about looking at yourself. When I was in Glasgow City Council, it passed a motion that any organisation that had contracts with a local authority would need at least 3 per cent of its workforce to have disabilities. That does not seem very ambitious now, but I found out that, in the council itself, less than 1 per cent of the employees had disabilities. Sometimes, people are looking outwards and not at their own organisations.