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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 10 May 2025
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Displaying 3226 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Kenneth Gibson

It will be lost twice next year because it is an on-going £160 million every year. It will be £320 million next year.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Proposed National Outcomes

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Okay, but economic growth is obviously important if we are going to provide the resources to do all that the Parliament wishes to do and, indeed, the Government wishes to do. There are concerns regarding the omission of explicit references to economic growth. For example, that led Edinburgh Chamber of Commerce, which responded to the consultation, to say that it feels as if the Government has “downgraded” economic growth, which is exactly the opposite of the message that we want to convey, given that it is one of the four priorities, as you have already touched on.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Proposed National Outcomes

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Kenneth Gibson

You also touched on the UN sustainable development goals. Goal 1 is “No poverty”. It was unclear whether the national outcome seeks to reduce poverty because, in Scotland’s NPF, the national outcomes are more realistic about what will be achieved within a devolved setting. Is that the case?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Proposed National Outcomes

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Kenneth Gibson

One of the UN’s sustainable development goals is that there should be no poverty, whereas the Scottish Government’s aim is to reduce poverty. Is that because we cannot eliminate poverty within a devolved setting? Is that the reason for it, or is there another reason why the Scottish Government does not have the same goal as the UN?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Proposed National Outcomes

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you. I will open up the session to colleagues round the table.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Proposed National Outcomes

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Kenneth Gibson

I think that Keith McDonald wants to come in. [Interruption.]

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Kenneth Gibson

I do not think that anyone doubts that having more money in people’s pockets is a good way of reducing poverty. However, local government and others are saying that, if the money went into their services, they would be able to provide more jobs, apart from anything else, which is the best way out of poverty.

Professor Heald said that

“being ‘progressive’ on social security and other cash benefits at the expense of public services expenditure will have an ‘anti-progressive’ effect because lower income groups have less access to substitute private services if satisfactory public services are not available.”

My concern is that local government is having to focus on its statutory obligations and, therefore, cannot support things such as employability services in the way that it wishes.

People are trapped on benefits—they might have more benefits now than they would otherwise have, but they are still trapped. We want to break that cycle of poverty. You know yourself, cabinet secretary, that the situation in Dundee is a particularly difficult one.

09:15  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Indeed—and so is the curriculum and how it is taught, and there is a whole debate to be had on that separately.

I can understand the Government’s position on flexibility, because everyone calls for flexibility. When we had the historic concordat between the Scottish Government and COSLA in 2007, local government often did things that the Government was not happy about, and the Government was getting blamed for decisions that were being taken at local authority level by other political parties that were running those local authorities.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Kenneth Gibson

I understand that there is some politics there, but I think that the flexibility issue is one that will not go away. I would hope that the Verity house agreement will allow greater flexibility to enable better service provision, with the resources that we have.

However, the Scottish Government can make savings in other areas. One thing that I have always been surprised about is that people can go to their general practitioner and get paracetamol. I asked a question about that and found that the cost of paracetamol that was prescribed in Scotland in 2022-23 was nearly £12 million, and that the average cost to see a doctor is £56, apparently. Other products such as Calpol and ibuprofen are also being prescribed. Surely we could save tens of millions of pounds from the medicines budget if things that are readily available in local pharmacies and, indeed, in supermarkets were no longer on the list of medicines that can be prescribed.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Research universities are concerned that the golden triangle of London, Oxford and Cambridge sucks in a lot of venture capital. That is why I have raised issues such as proof of concept money in the chamber. We were told that £5 million of Scottish Government money would bring in some £200 million of private investment, but some predictions, such as those about the data-driven innovation initiative, have underestimated how much we could bring in.

The main issue is that we have the potential to take Scotland forward but we are falling behind the rest of the UK. Employment in high-tech areas will provide tax revenue for the Scottish Government to invest in anti-poverty initiatives and other measures, which would be a win-win all round. I am asking about where to invest limited resources to get the best return.