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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 17 August 2025
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Displaying 3539 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Budget Process in Practice

Meeting date: 22 April 2025

Kenneth Gibson

You talked about timing. Obviously, that is a critical issue, and there is only so much that you can do about the gap between your forecasts and those of the Scottish Fiscal Commission. Can anything be done to tweak the timing in order to reduce those gaps?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Budget Process in Practice

Meeting date: 22 April 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Is one issue the fact that committees do not want stakeholders to criticise them for suggesting that money be moved within their area of responsibility? For example, it was made clear very early in the life of this Parliament that, when committees make suggestions for spending changes, they cannot just say that they want more money for education, health or whatever, because we would end up with every committee calling for more money for everything, which we are well used to seeing outside stakeholders—and the Opposition—routinely doing with budgets. For example, a health committee might not want to take money away from the hospital sector to put it into primary care. Does that inhibit the work of committees?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Budget Process in Practice

Meeting date: 22 April 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Thanks. That is very clear.

There are no further questions from members. Is there anything else that you wish to say that you feel that we have not touched upon? Is there anything that you would like to clarify or point out to the committee?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Budget Process in Practice

Meeting date: 22 April 2025

Kenneth Gibson

I will ask a final question on zero-based budgeting. Professor Bell, who will be giving evidence very soon, said in his submission:

“The UK Spending Review is a comprehensive ‘zero-based’ review that is forcing departments to justify the entirety of their spending, rather than the increment requested relative to last year’s baseline. It will involve ‘challenge panels’ including experts from the private sector and academia who will scrutinize departmental spending plans.”

What are the implications of that for the OBR?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Budget Process in Practice

Meeting date: 22 April 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you. I am pleased that you have touched on the OBR’s review and that the Treasury has accepted the 10 recommendations. I was going to ask you about that, but you have covered a lot of what I was going to ask, so I will ask one final question before I open up the session to colleagues.

In your submission, you state:

“The OBR’s remit includes the responsibility to evaluate the long-term sustainability of the UK public finances and assess fiscal risks.”

The SFC has published a fiscal sustainability report, which the committee will be interrogating—or at least questioning—and taking evidence on next Tuesday. What kind of work have you been doing with the SFC in relation to its report and your own work?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Budget Process in Practice

Meeting date: 22 April 2025

Kenneth Gibson

You have pointed out that you are, of course, not responsible for the formal calculation of the block grant adjustments, which are produced by the UK Treasury. Let me phrase it in this way: would it be helpful if the OBR actually did that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Budget Process in Practice

Meeting date: 22 April 2025

Kenneth Gibson

I always think that, for long-term projects—city region deals being an obvious example of projects with a long development period—a spending review never happens next week, next month or even next year. It always seems to be kicked down the road—there is always that worry as well.

I will open up the session to questions. Michael Marra will start, to be followed by Liz Smith.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Budget Process in Practice

Meeting date: 22 April 2025

Kenneth Gibson

When we discussed that issue during budget deliberations, we said that, because of in-grade rises, promotions and so on, 3 per cent really looked like being more like 4.5 per cent, but that is not being budgeted for.

I am jumping about a bit, because I do not want to take up too much time, given that other colleagues will want to come in. However, I want to cover a number of bases that others will want to touch on. I am not going to mention AI—David Bell’s report is laced with it—because I know that a certain individual will probably want to come in on that.

Professor Spowage, you talked about the MTFS earlier and you said that it appears to have

“the trappings of a strategic document but lacks a lot of detail that would be required for it to be a useful set of forecasts. There is no detail on how the spending projections are arrived at, and therefore it is impossible to scrutinise the priority of each and how realistic they are.”

You have also said that it has largely been “abandoned”.

Added to that, you talked about the fiscal sustainability delivery plan, and you said:

“It’s unclear why a different document is needed.”

I do not think you are the only person to have said that. The SFC has said something similar. Why do you think it has produced a separate document?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Budget Process in Practice

Meeting date: 22 April 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you very much. I note that, on your website, you also have a transcript of your dealings with this committee, so members had better behave.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Budget Process in Practice

Meeting date: 22 April 2025

Kenneth Gibson

What can we do to try to improve things? What can we do to ensure that committees have greater influence on the Government’s budgetary deliberations? Those questions are for both of you.