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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 8 May 2025
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Displaying 3226 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Indeed. If people want to come in on that issue, I would be more than happy for them to do so.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Kenneth Gibson

In my experience, we have gone backwards on flexibility in some respects. For example, a decade ago, some of my constituents in Skelmorlie, which is on the border of the NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde area, would have been able to go to Inverclyde hospital, but now they have to jump through all sorts of hoops to do that. Eighty-year-olds are having to visit relatives in hospital in Crosshouse, which, from their perspective, is at the far end of Ayrshire, when they have another hospital a few miles up the road.

There used to be a simple arrangement whereby people from Skelmorlie would have gone to Inverclyde hospital in the NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde area and NHS Ayrshire and Arran would have paid for that, but I feel that there is now a reluctance to allow that to happen. The interests of the patients seem to be secondary to accountancy concerns. I am not convinced that the flexibility that you have mentioned has improved over the years. In my experience, we have gone slightly backwards in that regard.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Kenneth Gibson

You have said that there does not seem to be a baseline to show where we are now compared to where we want to get to. I asked about that earlier, but I do not think you specifically answered the question about what savings you envisage can be delivered by public sector reform, and in what time period. That depends on the direction that the Government takes, but what realistic financial aim should the Government hope to achieve through the reform that you would like to see?

For example, in your report, you note that the Scottish leaders forum said that the

“current system of accountability does little to encourage cross-organisational working and holding individuals to account for their role in ensuring their organisation contributes to the performance of a collection of organisations”.

If we assume that that is resolved—that the Government looks at your report, ticks every box, says, “We’ll sort that,” and then does sort it—where can we end up and over what kind of timescale, and what kind of savings can be made in order to reinvest?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Kenneth Gibson

I was going to go to Chris Kerr, but someone else has indicated that they want to come in first.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Kenneth Gibson

If our other guests have similar frustrations, I would be happy to hear them.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Kenneth Gibson

I am just getting warmed up but, given that time is against us—we will have another panel following this one—and all my colleagues are keen to come in, I will leave it there.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Kenneth Gibson

That is really what we mean by preventative spend, is it not? It is about disinvesting in one area to invest somewhere else in order to have better outcomes and to save resources further down the line.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Kenneth Gibson

By when do you intend to deliver that reduction?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Kenneth Gibson

If people do not indicate that they want to speak, I will pick on folk.

Alison Irvine, you have not spoken yet, so I think that this is a good time to ask you a question. You said in your written submission that

“The priority for reform is therefore to build a financially sustainable and accessible transport system that the people of Scotland can rely on by improving its resilience and effectiveness.”

You went on to say that you are keen

“to develop a fiscally sustainable path which improves value for money for the tax payer.”

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Kenneth Gibson

I thank all our witnesses for their participation today and for their written contributions.

We will continue our evidence taking on the Scottish budget 2025-26 next week, when we will hear from the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body on its budget bid and from the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government.

Meeting closed at 12:18.