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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 1 April 2026
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Displaying 4779 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 7 March 2023

Kenneth Gibson

We will now take evidence from the Minister for Public Finance, Planning and Community Wealth on a Scottish statutory instrument.

Mr Arthur is joined by Robert Souter, senior tax policy adviser at the Scottish Government. I welcome Mr Souter to the meeting, and I invite Mr Arthur to make a short opening statement.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 7 March 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you. I do not have any questions, and I see that there are none from committee members. I am sure that you are relieved that there were no questions on that. I could have asked one or two for the sake of it, but why would one do that?

Thank you for your evidence, minister.

The next item on our agenda is formal consideration of motion S6M-08009. I invite the minister to move the motion.

Motion moved,

That the Finance and Public Administration Committee recommends that the Scottish Landfill Tax (Standard Rate and Lower Rate) Order 2023 (SSI 2023/50) be approved.—[Tom Arthur]

Motion agreed to.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 7 March 2023

Kenneth Gibson

It seems to me a huge sum of money to have been added in the revisions, as opposed to something that was anticipated. For example, on teachers’ pensions, you know how many teachers will retire and how much they will get paid as part of their pension. It seems to me that £500 million is quite a differential.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 7 March 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Okay. I will not go into any more depth; I could, and if that continues, I will do so at our further meetings. Liz Smith wants to come in.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 7 March 2023

Kenneth Gibson

I thank the minister and his officials for their evidence. We will publish a short report to the Parliament, setting out our decision on the regulations, in due course.

11:04 Meeting suspended.  

11:07 On resuming—  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 7 March 2023

Kenneth Gibson

I thank the minister and Mr Souter for their evidence today. As we discussed the next item on our agenda, consideration of our work programme, in private earlier, that concludes today’s meeting.

Meeting closed at 11:10.  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 7 March 2023

Kenneth Gibson

But that money is not actually being spent on anything.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 7 March 2023

Kenneth Gibson

I call John Mason. John, I do not want you to take more than an hour—I know that this is an exciting day for you.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 7 March 2023

Kenneth Gibson

I have annex A in front of me and I am trying to get some of those figures on the record, because that is public money and it is important that anybody who is watching this meeting or looking at the document has an idea about what is going on behind some of the figures. I am sure that you will accept that the document is a tome, and the amount of money that is switching from budget to budget is quite bewildering at times, so it is very difficult to get a steer on exactly why decisions have been made in the way that they have.

We are talking about the second in-year revision and yet some of the figures are very significant indeed. If we add them all up, we are talking about billions of pounds going from portfolio to portfolio, and it seems quite odd that such huge amounts of money are switching in year. This was an exceptional year, and we know all about the challenges that the Scottish Government has faced, but the amount of money that is moving from portfolio to portfolio—and, no doubt, within portfolios—seems quite astonishing.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 7 March 2023

Kenneth Gibson

This is meat and drink to John Mason. He always gets very excited—the spring budget revision is a highlight of his year.

Most of us on the committee have a grasp of such matters, but as you said, there is a need for clarity, so that anyone who looks at these figures can see what the thinking is behind the Scottish Government’s decisions and what the impact might be on front-line services. When people see a statement such as, “The figure for that is £X million, but it will not affect anything,” people think, “Whit?” It simply doesnae compute for ordinary people who are not as au fait with the process.

I have droned on long enough, so I will bring in colleagues around the table. The first member to ask questions will be Liz Smith.

10:15