The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
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Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 16 January 2024
Kenneth Gibson
Good morning, and welcome to the second meeting in 2024 of the Finance and Public Administration Committee.
The first item on today’s agenda is evidence taking from two panels of witnesses on the Scottish budget 2024-25. First, we will hear from the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body on its own budget bid, before taking evidence from the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Finance.
On our first panel of witnesses, Jackson Carlaw, MSP and member of the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body, is joined by the following Scottish Parliament officials: David McGill, clerk and chief executive, and Sara Glass, group head of financial governance. I welcome you all to this morning’s meeting, and I intend to allow an hour for this evidence session.
I invite Mr Carlaw to make a short opening statement.
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 16 January 2024
Kenneth Gibson
Thank you very much. I will try to keep my questions fairly short, given that we have only about an hour and other members will no doubt wish to come in.
You talked about a submission that is “fair and affordable”—that is also mentioned in your submission. Do you think that it is fair and affordable for the Scottish Parliament’s budget to go up by 7.6 per cent when the Scottish Government’s budget for everything that it is responsible for is going up by only 2.6 per cent in terms of resource over the next financial year?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 16 January 2024
Kenneth Gibson
The allocation that MSPs are given to employ staff is to go up to £156,900 per member. What is the utilisation of that? On average, how much do list and constituency members use that budget?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 16 January 2024
Kenneth Gibson
Last year—and this is from memory—the Ethical Standards Commissioner got an additional 7.4 members of staff. They are on an average salary of £57,700, which is going up by 14.2 per cent. Are all those folk who started last year getting promoted?
09:45Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 16 January 2024
Kenneth Gibson
The figure sticks out when we are looking at all the other areas that the Scottish budget has to fund with a 2.6 per cent increase in resource. As I am sure that you see, that figure looks way out of kilter.
You said earlier that there are some people to whom you have said “Nyet”. To whom have you said, “No, hold on—we do not actually think that that salary or budget increase is justified”?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 16 January 2024
Kenneth Gibson
I will not continue, as colleagues are keen to come in.
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 16 January 2024
Kenneth Gibson
Property costs.
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 16 January 2024
Kenneth Gibson
Thank you for that clarification.
I thank our witnesses for their evidence today. We will be continuing with our budget scrutiny, but first we will have a five-minute break until 10.25.
10:20 Meeting suspended.Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 16 January 2024
Kenneth Gibson
Thank you very much for that very helpful opening statement.
You have said again that there will be a 10 per cent reduction in capital over the next five years, but the Scottish Fiscal Commission has said that it will be a 20 per cent reduction. In chapter 1 of the budget document, “Scottish Budget: 2024-25”, it is stated on page 5:
“SFC analysis shows that by 2028-29 our total capital funding is set to fall by 20 per cent in real terms in comparison to 2023-24.”
Do you accept that it is a 20 per cent rather than a 10 per cent reduction?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 16 January 2024
Kenneth Gibson
I go back to the point that it is about transparency when you are putting together these budgets. It looks as if that is a decision that has been made by the Scottish Government. We can look at UK AME, but there are all these other figures on top of it. It looks almost as if that is a figure that you have to play with. Should that not be separated out from the Scottish budget to give a much more rational and reasonable view of it, and so that we can make appropriate comparisons?