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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 4 November 2025
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Displaying 3846 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

In relation to multiyear funding, for years, the Scottish Government has said that it does not receive multiyear funding from the UK Government. Do you think that the spending review will be an opportunity to bring in multiyear funding for the third sector? In your submission, you mentioned the increased employer national insurance contribution costs. The Scottish Government received £339 million to deal with that, but the cost of the impact on the public sector is about £700 million-odd. Given that the Scottish Government has not received sufficient additional funding to compensate for that, how can it pass that on without having to take money from its own projects and programmes?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

I will bring in Mike Brown and then Michael Kellet; there are too many Michaels and Mikes here.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

I will bring in Craig Hoy and Mike Brown in a minute or two. First, I have a question for Michael Kellett, which goes back to the subject of preventative spend.

In the first three years of the 2011-16 parliamentary session, John Swinney had £500 million available to embed the preventative spend approach. At that time there was resistance, particularly from the NHS, about disinvesting in some projects or areas that were not as effective as others in order to then invest in preventative spend. Some momentum was lost subsequent to that period.

Is it Public Health Scotland’s view that investing in prevention now will reduce demand later, and so disinvestment might not be as necessary as one might think? Craig Hoy gave the example of Mounjaro to illustrate that investing successfully might reduce the number of people who will need operations five years from now, or reduce the incidence of heart attacks and strokes. That would inevitably bring savings, so disinvestment is perhaps not as essential as we thought previously. What is your view on that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

I know—you are just a youngster.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

I think that we would all accept that.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

You make a point, because one of the issues about income tax is behavioural change. The Scottish Fiscal Commission will say that, because of behavioural change, the Scottish Government will not raise 80 to 90 per cent of the amount that it hopes to raise with the top level of tax. That is not necessarily people moving elsewhere; they can just decide to work fewer hours. However, a property tax is on something that is there—it cannot be avoided.

How could that be delivered without cross-party agreement? That is the issue. There is no consensus about how that could effectively be delivered. One of the reasons for that is that people are concerned, particularly six months before an election, about the response of voters. Professor David Bell said last week that if you give people an extra £500 they just shrug their shoulders, but if you take £500 away from them they are ready to lynch you. People who gain are not particularly impressed, but the people who lose out are extremely upset.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you very much for that. I want to thank all of our guests this afternoon. It has been an interesting and very helpful session for the committee.

I will now just call a break until 10 past 12 to allow our witnesses to change and to give members a break.

12:05 Meeting suspended.  

12:11 On resuming—  

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Fiscal Commission (Appointments)

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

I will move to the main point that I want to ask about. What direction do you think that you can take the Scottish Fiscal Commission in? There is quite a difference between you and, indeed, Ms Riccomini, and the two outgoing professors, who are very much from an academic background. Your background is considerably different. Your CV is, of course, excellent; you were very much involved in the establishment of Revenue Scotland, which is, I would think, a really significant thing on anyone’s career path, and you also have lots of experience in the Scottish Government, where you were a director. What do you think that your imprint will be on the Scottish Fiscal Commission?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Fiscal Commission (Appointments)

Meeting date: 9 September 2025

Kenneth Gibson

I have one last question, because I know that colleagues are keen to come in, and it is on the issue of communication, which I have already touched on this morning. The OECD has said that relative to, for example, its Dutch equivalent and one or two others, the Scottish Fiscal Commission, although doing an excellent job at all levels, could do more to broaden its impact on the Scottish media and the wider public. I know that that is pushing a lot uphill, because I am not convinced that the majority of people in Scotland are necessarily interested in the fine points of the commission’s deliberations, but what can you do to enable the Scottish Fiscal Commission to have a bigger impact with stakeholders as well as with the wider public in Scotland?