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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 19 December 2025
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Displaying 4037 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 September 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Indeed.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 September 2023

Kenneth Gibson

The question is, that motion S6M-09584 be agreed to. Are we agreed?

Members: No.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 12 September 2023

Kenneth Gibson

One of the conclusions that came from the committee’s meeting on 23 May was that efficiencies made as part of managing budgets are not a genuine reform. I am sure that you would agree with that. What role do efficiencies such as sharing data or making use of artificial intelligence and digital technologies play?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 September 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you. That concludes the committee’s questions.

Item 2 is formal consideration of the motion on the instrument. I invite the minister to move motion S6M-09584.

Motion moved,

That the Finance and Public Administration Committee recommends that the Land and Buildings Transaction Tax (Green Freeports Relief) (Scotland) Order 2023 [draft] be approved.—[Tom Arthur]

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 September 2023

Kenneth Gibson

I thank the minister and his colleagues for their evidence. We will publish in due course a short report to the Parliament setting out our decision on the draft order.

I suspend the meeting briefly to allow for a change of witnesses.

10:48 Meeting suspended.  

10:53 On resuming—  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 12 September 2023

Kenneth Gibson

That appears to have concluded the questions from the committee, but I will just point out that, ironically, the council tax was meant to be a temporary fix when it came in more than 30 years ago. One of the difficulties that we have not touched on is that, if we did have a new system, whatever that system would be, the number of appeals would run into the hundreds of thousands, because that is what happened when the council tax came in, as I remember from my days on Glasgow City Council.

David, do you want to make any points that we have not touched on?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 September 2023

Kenneth Gibson

I was quite keen to have a freeport at Hunterston, in my constituency, so I will certainly support the motion. The reason for that is primarily that, if we do not get the jobs and investment in Scotland, those will simply move to south of the border. Teesside would be a major threat to jobs in this part of Scotland if it were not for the fact that Leith is one of the green ports.

Engagement is important. We have to take on board what the unions also said, which is that the City of Edinburgh Council is not engaging with them. That is a Labour-led local authority. Other political parties as well as the Scottish Government have to think more about engagement with trade unions and others.

However, I will support the motion for the pragmatic economic reason that the alternative would be a drain of jobs and money to elsewhere in the UK.

Minister, do you want to sum up before we go to the question?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 12 September 2023

Kenneth Gibson

At a time of static budgets, how difficult is it to disinvest in programmes or services in the public sector that are less effective, in order to invest in more effective services?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 12 September 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Scotland has an ageing population and declining workforce and the Scottish Fiscal Commission has said, based on current projections, that the funding gap is likely to remain for years. In a paper submitted last year, you suggested that the Scottish Government should look to increase tax revenues by around £3.3 billion, which is hugely significant if we think of Scotland’s current tax burden. For example, someone earning £43,662 a year would pay 42 per cent income tax and 12 per cent national insurance and a lot of the money that they have left would probably go on fuel duty, excise duty, value-added tax and so on.

What would be the impact of raising that sum? I realise that it would not all be done in one go, but what would be the impact on behavioural change? The Scottish Fiscal Commission has expressed concern that increasing taxation to a certain degree results in behavioural change whereby people do not work as hard or move somewhere else.

I will give you an example. Under a previous Conservative Government, Chancellor Osborne limited pension pots to £1 million. As a result, a lot of doctors, including general practitioners and consultants, realised that they would end up paying more in tax than they would gain, so they decided that they would retire early. That was a detrimental behavioural change, and the UK Government is now looking to reverse that policy—and has reversed it, to a degree.

What would be the behavioural change in this case? Last week, we heard that there are only 18,000 top-rate taxpayers in Scotland.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform Programme

Meeting date: 12 September 2023

Kenneth Gibson

There is indeed, so I will give you plenty of time to answer.