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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 19 December 2025
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Displaying 4037 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 19 September 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Does that answer your question, Michael?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 19 September 2023

Kenneth Gibson

I was going to ask you about capital expenditure. I do not like to interrupt you in free flow, but I also asked about behavioural change. For example, what would the impact on people be if the Scottish Government decided that, because, politically, it would be very difficult to cut spending or whatever, it would have to hit the 1 or 2 per cent of the highest taxpayers? You talked about people who are just over the threshold of the higher marginal rate. What impact would it have on them?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 19 September 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Will that be impacted by the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 19 September 2023

Kenneth Gibson

I think that it will be a theme that everyone will talk about areas that we could spend more money in but no one will say that we should spend less on other areas.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 19 September 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Stuart, you have been very patient.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 19 September 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Philip Whyte is the only other witness who has indicated to come in. If anyone else wants to come in, do not be shy. Put your hand up.

Philip, you were nodding a lot at what Ruth Boyle was saying. One thing that the economists said was that wealth taxes are complex and can take several years to implement. We are looking at the budget for 2024-25. Even assuming that we thought that wealth taxes were appropriate and could be implemented, what kind of time are we talking about and what can be done for the forthcoming tax year, which is the one that is staring us in the face now?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 19 September 2023

Kenneth Gibson

I have a few other things that I would like to ask about, but I want to let colleagues in, so I am just going to ask one more question, which is on an issue that we have not touched on yet: transparency.

João, I will stick with you. You said in your response that

“A more forthcoming approach from the Scottish Government to the publication of financial memoranda for the Committee’s scrutiny”

would be an improvement. I wonder whether you can talk about that, as that clearly has a direct impact on the committee’s work.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 19 September 2023

Kenneth Gibson

I am sorry—I was asking that question to Professor Bell.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 19 September 2023

Kenneth Gibson

The obvious one is the additional room supplement or bedroom tax. The Scottish Government has been mitigating that for years, but I do not see much transparency in that respect. That is just one thing that it is mitigating. What should it do to try to make that sort of thing more transparent in the budget?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 19 September 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Folks, we continue our evidence taking on the sustainability of Scotland’s finances with a round-table discussion. I welcome to the meeting Adam Stachura, head of policy and communications at Age Scotland; Dr Judith Turbyne, chief executive of Children in Scotland; Philip Whyte, director of the Institute for Public Policy Research Scotland; Stuart Hay, director of Living Streets Scotland; Ruth Boyle, policy and campaigns manager at the Poverty Alliance; Michael Kellet, director of strategy, governance and performance at Public Health Scotland; and Alastair Sim, director of Universities Scotland. I thank everyone for their written submissions.

Rather than my asking a whole load of different questions, I will ask only one, which will be to Ruth Boyle, to kick us off. Anyone who wants to comment on what Ruth has said, please let me know. We will buzz around the table so that everyone gets the maximum opportunity to speak. I will come in only as and when, which will not be very often. That will satisfy John Mason, because he is always moaning about how much I speak at these events.

Ruth, your very detailed and excellent submission is called “The case for fair tax reform in Scotland”. You will have heard some of what the economists said earlier in the meeting. In your submission, you say that it is important that

“critical national priorities cannot be sacrificed due to a lack of funds”.

You talk about

“new and improved forms of local taxation that target under-taxed wealth, as well as business and polluters.”

You call for

“a fundamental rethink, from scratch, of how the Income Tax system can be best designed”.

You call for a

“cross-party process to replace the current Council Tax”.

You call for “a local inheritance tax” and a “local payroll tax”.

The economists said that we have a small, finite group of people who pay a very high proportion of tax in Scotland, and they have real concerns about behavioural impact, for example, if we were to decide to go down the road of increasing taxes significantly. How can we deliver what the Poverty Alliance wants to deliver on its social policy? How can we fund those objectives, given the constraints that the economists presented to us, not only the fiscal gap that the Scottish Government has now but the impact on higher taxpayers should some of these policies be implemented? Higher taxpayers might leave Scotland, they might decide to work less or they might engage in more avoidance.