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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 18 December 2025
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Displaying 4037 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Fiscal Framework: Value Added Tax Assignment

Meeting date: 14 November 2023

Kenneth Gibson

One of the things that you have suggested in your paper is a sales tax rather than VAT. Can you talk to us about that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Fiscal Framework: Value Added Tax Assignment

Meeting date: 14 November 2023

Kenneth Gibson

We have four political parties represented around this table as well as five experts on this issue. Who thinks that assignment of VAT is a really great idea at this time? [Laughter.] I thought that John Ireland was about to come in there heroically. You should remember that this is like an auction—if anyone twitches, they will be called to speak. David Phillips had his finger on the button of his microphone at one point, but he desisted.

We seem more or less in agreement that this presents considerable difficulties across the board, whether from a forecasting point of view, a practical point of view or an audit perspective. Does anyone see any real benefits to this approach or any way in which we could eventually reach a benefit? Is there any perfect way of getting to that point, or will this always be a bureaucratic and costly distraction that will not add any benefit to Scotland? Does anyone want to contribute for or against that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Fiscal Framework: Value Added Tax Assignment

Meeting date: 14 November 2023

Kenneth Gibson

But was it not the case that devolution was not considered, because we were part of the European Union then and it was not permitted to devolve such things to sub-state legislatures?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Fiscal Framework: Independent Report and Review

Meeting date: 14 November 2023

Kenneth Gibson

David, you said in the independent report that

“relevant data used to forecast the BGAs and to determine tax and welfare receipts should also be reviewed to ensure it is sufficiently robust and comprehensive for those purposes.”

You make a number of other recommendations, one of which is about

“whether the OBR and SFC forecasts could be better tied to minimise this risk.”

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Fiscal Framework: Independent Report and Review

Meeting date: 14 November 2023

Kenneth Gibson

What are the financial parameters that we are talking about?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Fiscal Framework: Value Added Tax Assignment

Meeting date: 14 November 2023

Kenneth Gibson

There is also the issue of cross-border purchases and so on, but there are sales taxes in the United States and Europe. They are quite common around the world, aren’t they?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Fiscal Framework: Value Added Tax Assignment

Meeting date: 14 November 2023

Kenneth Gibson

The finance committee from 2011 to 2016, of which I was convener, looked at the matter briefly and we took the view that there was not enough on it. The Scottish Fiscal Commission was in an embryonic stage; we were not at the stage that we are at now; and it was hoped that, in future years, we would be able to look at the issue in greater depth. I should say that our predecessor committee in the last session of Parliament was very sceptical about this as a practical way forward.

However, it remains part of the Smith commission’s work. I take the view that the Smith commission is not necessarily set in tablets of stone. It happened some years ago now; I think that we have to evolve beyond it in some areas, and this might be one of those area where we have to say that this approach will not be a runner in the foreseeable future. Scottish Government officials are looking at the matter, yet, given that we can see no practical or pragmatic way forward, one has to wonder whether that is a good use of public resources.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Fiscal Framework: Value Added Tax Assignment

Meeting date: 14 November 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Before I get trampled by people wanting to come in, because no one has so far, I will add to what you have been saying there. HMRC did a presentation this morning and it said that the changes between each publication in the past year were, indeed, the highest that they had been in the last decade at 9.81 per cent. Mark Taylor, you said:

“The implementation of VAT assignment would further increase the uncertainty, volatility and complexity of the Scottish Budget.”

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Fiscal Framework: Value Added Tax Assignment

Meeting date: 14 November 2023

Kenneth Gibson

I will bring in one of my colleagues in a minute but there are a couple of others who want to speak so I will bring them in first. First of all, David Phillips, to add a wee bit more to the mix here, you said that

“VAT has properties that make it a relatively poor candidate for devolution”,

although we are talking about assignment at the moment. Then you go on to say:

“The administrative difficulties of devolving VAT to Scotland should not be overstated”.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Fiscal Framework: Value Added Tax Assignment

Meeting date: 14 November 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Is the issue for you that it would perhaps skew economic activity as well? For example, if food is VAT zero rated and in other areas of the economy VAT is 20 per cent, that would perhaps skew Government policy and decision making, if it were devolved, into areas where it was likely to have a VAT return.