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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 19 December 2025
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Displaying 4037 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Kenneth Gibson

For clarity, are you saying that, by 2028-29, it will be £7 million a year, or are you saying that it will be £7 million up to and including 2028-29?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Kenneth Gibson

I will move on to the Scottish Property Federation, which said:

“Tax legislation will rarely cover each and every eventuality and given the potentially high taxation burden of ADS we continue to feel that a power to enable a relief for exceptional circumstances, to be applied on the discretion of Revenue Scotland, could bring additional fairness to the ADS system.”

The Scottish Property Federation went on to say:

“there is something of a missed opportunity to address these wider concerns which we raise.”

What are your comments on that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Kenneth Gibson

RSPB Scotland has around 80,000 hectares of land, much of which has agriculture activities on it. It has said that, historically, the CAP performed poorly

“in terms of directing spend appropriately and offering best value for public money”.

It has said that, if we take the bill forward, we should look at cost benefits, that there have not been any alternative approaches, and that it has

“seen nothing from Scottish Government that suggests such cost-benefit analysis of a range of reform options has ever been undertaken.”

As I have mentioned a couple of times, it looks like a steady-as-she-goes financial memorandum, rather than an opportunity to make significant changes and to look at where we get the best value for money. What work is being undertaken to ensure that we get the best bang for our agricultural buck, given the commitments that we need to fulfil in the years ahead, not least with regard to the climate?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Kenneth Gibson

I appreciate that, but this seems to be a case of “steady as she goes”. Is there no thought about how those administration costs could be reduced so that more money could be invested directly in agriculture itself or in innovation for climate change reduction? It seems to me that there is an excellent opportunity to make changes to reduce bureaucracy and to improve efficiency and delivery. I am a bit disappointed that we are just keeping the money the same and that there seems to be no ambition to reduce that by even 5, 10, 15 or 20 per cent. The overall budget for the next financial year has a 4.5 per cent reduction, but there seems to be no consideration here of a reduction in admin costs.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Kenneth Gibson

The next agenda item is to take evidence from the Scottish Government bill team on the financial memorandum to the Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill. We are joined by Scottish Government officials John Kerr, deputy director of agriculture, rural policy division; Mandy Callaghan, deputy director, agriculture and land transition; Karen Morley, head of finance, agriculture and rural economy directorate; and Ewen Scott, branch head, Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill.

I welcome you all to the meeting. We finished our previous item a lot sooner than we had anticipated, so I apologise for rushing you in a wee bit earlier than scheduled. I invite John Kerr to make a brief opening statement.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Kenneth Gibson

If so much is unclear and is still being worked on, how did you come to the figure of £61 million?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Kenneth Gibson

When will we have that? It feels like groundhog day for the committee. We keep getting financial memorandums and framework bills—I apologise for the generalised moan, and I know that this is the only one that is your responsibility—and we keep having to ask questions about future resources, how things will be funded and what the secondary legislation will look like. When will we reach a position where administrative issues are no longer, to quote your own financial memorandum, “unclear”?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Over what period? Is that £7 million extra revenue for the Scottish Government or less revenue for the Scottish Government?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Kenneth Gibson

The financial memorandum makes clear that the money that will be available for financial support to the sector will be set in tablets of stone, so we are looking at exactly the same funding level from 2023-24 to 2027-28—£741.9 million. It is clear that the financial memorandum is already out of date, because the actual funding in the current financial year, according to page 94 of the Scottish budget 2024-25, is £738.9 million. That drops to £705.7 million, which is a 4.5 per cent decrease. Does that not knock a wee bit of a hole in the financial memorandum?

On page 96 of the Scottish budget, if we look at money for woodland grants, which has been raised in the chamber on several occasions, we see that you are again looking to hold the amount of money that is being invested in that area at £77.2 million, which is the current figure for this year. However, in next year’s budget, we are looking at a decline to £45.4 million, which is quite considerable.

How can we have faith in the figures for a period of five years when there are significant changes to the sums in the financial memorandum in the budget that we are about to vote on this month?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Kenneth Gibson

In paragraph 15 of the memorandum, you said:

“This mechanism will provide a platform to build momentum for private sector green finance investment by offering financial support explicitly linked to action for nature and action for climate on farms and crofts which should in turn give the land manager confidence to engage with private market investment in nature”.

However, a lot of the submissions are suggesting that the financial memorandum beds in vested interests and the status quo. The RSPB Scotland submission is the one that I have in front of me, but I have read four or five submissions that say almost the same thing. The RSPB Scotland submission says:

“the bottom 40% of recipients only receive 4.8% of the budget i.e., the larger businesses get most of the ‘income support’.”

It also states that less favoured area payments

“are not connected in any meaningful way to income and profitability”,

and that

“Farm Business Income data suggests, for example, that only 23% of LFA Cattle businesses have an income greater than zero without support payments”

whereas

“82% of general cropping farms, for example, make a profit without support.”

One could suggest that the bill basically continues with the status quo whereby LFA payments are made based on land rather than on what is happening on that land to achieve some of the objectives that the bill supposedly seeks to achieve.