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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 14 June 2025
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Displaying 3407 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 September 2023

Kenneth Gibson

The next item on our agenda is evidence on the draft Land and Buildings Transaction Tax (Green Freeports Relief) (Scotland) Order 2023. I welcome to the meeting David Melhuish, director of the Scottish Property Federation; Derek Thomson, Scottish secretary at Unite the union; and Liz Cairns, researcher at Unite the union.

I intend to allow up to an hour for this session. If a witness wants to be brought into the discussion at any point, they should indicate that to the clerks, please, and I can then call them. I will direct my questions for Unite the Union to Derek Thomson, but if he would prefer Liz Cairns to answer them, I would be quite happy with that. We will simply suck it and see, so to speak.

We have your submissions, which I thank you for. We will go straight to questions.

My first question is to David Melhuish. In response to our questions, you talked about the five-year timespan being

“simply too short for the nature of long term investment in the two green freeports”

in Cromarty and Leith. You also said:

“we note that the green freeports will not be fully operational until at least 2024 or perhaps even 2025. We therefore suggest that the qualifying period should be extended to at least 7 years.”

What would be the benefits of that to your industry and, indeed, the wider Scottish economy? How much investment and employment do you realistically expect to come into those two green ports?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 September 2023

Kenneth Gibson

You have said in your submission that you

“cannot accept an economic situation which allows for private sector employers in Freeport areas to increase profits as a result of government subsidies while vital local public services that our communities and those in greatest need depend upon, are allowed to wither on the vine.”

Where is the evidence that that will happen? The whole point is to create economic growth, which will increase tax revenues, which will allow further revenues overall for the Government to invest in services.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 September 2023

Kenneth Gibson

I will put a lot of these questions to the minister when he gives evidence, to find out what he has to say.

David, what kind of jobs and what kind of businesses do you envisage will go to the freeports?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 September 2023

Kenneth Gibson

I do not think for a minute that there will be 100 per cent displacement, but I do not think that there will be zero displacement either; it is bound to be somewhere between the two. That is a concern. Do our guests have any evidence on what level of displacement they think there is likely to be? I will ask the Scottish Government about that specific issue, but are you able to give us best and worst scenarios?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 September 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Anyone who has read the latest issue of Private Eye will have seen the comments about the alleged shenanigans going on in Teesside, where a freeport is being developed. One of the issues about displacement is that, if there was not a freeport in Leith, perhaps there would be displacement to Teesside. Perhaps that was one of the reasons why Leith was considered as a location.

Let me turn back to David Melhuish. You raised concern about forward funding arrangements. Could you elaborate a wee bit on that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 September 2023

Kenneth Gibson

I will open it up to colleagues around the table, but I have a final question for Derek Thomson and Liz Cairns. You said in response to question 3 that

“Unite would argue that there is a deliberate lack of clarity on whether trade unions will be able to access and organise workers operating within the zones, and to bargain with employers over pay, terms and conditions.”

Who do you think is responsible for that lack of clarity?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 September 2023

Kenneth Gibson

I call Jamie Halcro Johnston.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 September 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you very much. That concludes questions from the committee. Are our witnesses happy to make any further points to the committee on something that has not been covered? If you feel that we have not asked anything that you would like to mention, now is your chance.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 September 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you very much for those final points, which are much appreciated, and for taking the time to give evidence to the committee. We will continue to take evidence on the draft order next week when we will hear from the Minister for Community Wealth and Public Finance and take a decision on whether we ought to approve the order.

That concludes the public part of today’s meeting. The next item on our agenda is consideration of our work programme.

11:58 Meeting continued in private until 12:05.  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 September 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Business might move but, with less than 4 per cent unemployment in Scotland, why would workers move to an area if their wages were to go lower? Would they not just get a job somewhere else? Surely, 75,000 people will not move into those zones to get lower wages. It is not really credible that people will move to accept lower wages in an economy where there already are chronic labour and skills shortages, is it?