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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 9 June 2025
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Displaying 3368 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 7 November 2023

Kenneth Gibson

I think that we all want to move forward with the legislation, but some of the local authorities are a bit more cautious than others. One question that has been asked is whether one size should fit all. If one size does not fit all, how do we ensure that we do not move at the pace of the slowest caravan, and that we achieve some of the changes that we want to make?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 7 November 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you. I will bring colleagues in in a minute. You said that local authorities know where they are going, but they have said that they do not. For example, Jim Jack of West Lothian Council said:

“I am concerned about the future, what the journey will continue to look like for waste services, our ability to be light enough on our feet, and whether we will be funded to achieve what we need to achieve.”

They do not feel that they know where they are going.

Kirsty McGuire of South Lanarkshire Council said:

“Until we know what our service will look like, we will not know what we are applying for funding for.”

They are in a cleft stick: they are looking for additional resources to deliver the bill, but because it seems to be a moveable feast, they are not sure what they are applying for money for. Kirsty McGuire also said:

“if glass had been included in the scheme, there would have been an opportunity for us to make some efficiencies because glass is about 60 per cent of the material that we collect in our container bin, which is for glass, plastics and cans.”—[Official Report, Finance and Public Administration Committee, 24 October 2023; c 8.]

A lot of councils were geared up for the deposit return scheme, but that has changed significantly. Although you are telling us that things seem to be going well, we have not really heard that in the feedback that the witnesses have given us as part of our scrutiny.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 7 November 2023

Kenneth Gibson

The first colleague to come in will be Michelle Thomson.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 7 November 2023

Kenneth Gibson

I am a bit astonished that the 100 per cent collection figure is based on the fact that people should pay fines. People should not break the law in the first place, but we have to deal with reality.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 7 November 2023

Kenneth Gibson

I know that it has been a long session so far, minister, but, just to finish off, I want to refer to a couple of points that you have made in the evidence that you have given us.

In your responses to Ross Greer and me, you referred to the £88.4 million that Zero Waste Scotland estimates that the cost will be to enable all 32 Scottish local authorities to align with the existing code of practice. With regard to paragraph 48 of the financial memorandum, the deputy convener asked witnesses at our meeting on 24 October whether they were aware of any discussions between colleagues in their local authorities and either Zero Waste Scotland or the Scottish Government about where that figure had come from and whether that detail had been set out. Charlie Devine of Dundee City Council and Kirsty McGuire of South Lanarkshire Council both said, “No”. Although the figure has been set out, our local authority colleagues do not seem to understand where it has come from. Can you explain how Zero Waste Scotland came up with the figure, given the fact that it does not appear to have engaged with local authority colleagues in producing it?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 7 November 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Okay—thank you.

Finally, minister, you said in response to Michelle Thomson that you would be happy to provide an updated financial memorandum. I wrote that down word for word. Do you now believe that, following this evidence session, you should go away and update the financial memorandum as it has been presented to us?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 7 November 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you for the clarification, and I thank you and your colleagues for the evidence that you have given today. It has been very helpful for the committee’s deliberations. We will look at the matter further and deliberate in private session in order to produce a report.

In the meantime, we will take a short break to allow a changeover of witnesses.

11:17 Meeting suspended.  

11:24 On resuming—  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 24 October 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Mr Devine, in answer to the second question, you say,

“some of our responses to the initial consultation are now irrelevant or require further review and updating”,

and you touch on

“forthcoming legislative changes such as Deposit and Return Scheme”—

which was considered to be forthcoming at the time—

“and the Extended Producer Regulations”.

Can you see where those changes have been made and what the implications are of that for Dundee?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 24 October 2023

Kenneth Gibson

In your view, would that be essential to deliver the bill?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 24 October 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Charlie Devine from Dundee spoke about something that may also affect you in West Lothian or Ms McGuire in South Lanarkshire, which is the issue of trying to increase recycling from flats rather than from garden-gated properties. Will the bill help in delivering that, or is there an overestimate of how much waste will be collected in appropriate receptacles?