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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 17 June 2025
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Displaying 3475 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Indeed, but what are the parameters? Is it five counsel? Is it 50?

12:00  

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Kenneth Gibson

I do not quite follow that—it seems illogical to me. However, I will move on, because colleagues want to come in and we have a heavy workload this morning.

On the number of people who will be required, uptake of the service is expected to increase sevenfold between 2026-27 and 2031-32, according to your figures. If people are being offered the residential and weekend care that the bill intends to provide, surely there will be a much greater demand than is being anticipated. Why would you expect demand to peak in 10 years and then reach a steady state, which is what is being suggested? I think that there is an issue about the availability of staff and facilities, obviously, but surely that just means that there will be a huge pent-up demand that is not being met by the service.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Kenneth Gibson

I know that colleagues are keen to come in. First up will be Michael Marra.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Our next agenda item is the second evidence session in our inquiry into the cost-effectiveness of Scottish public inquiries.? I welcome to the meeting the Rt Hon Lord Hardie, who is the former chair of the Edinburgh tram inquiry, and Dr Emma Ireton, associate professor at Nottingham law school, Nottingham Trent University.

We will move straight to questions, because there is so much to dig into. Lord Hardie, you said that public inquiries often reinvent the wheel. Will you say a wee bit about your concerns in that regard?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Kenneth Gibson

One of the issues, and the reason why we are taking this look at public inquiries and their costs, is that the costs seem to be astronomical. Not only does the timescale often run away from people, but there can be a concern that justice not only has to be done but has to be seen to be done. If inquiries take five or 10 years, or even longer on some occasions, there is an issue about that.

Lord Hardie, you have raised the issue of putting a specific budgetary limit on an inquiry. You wrote:

“This approach might undermine public confidence in the Inquiry.”

Surely every other area of public life has a set budget to which it must operate, and indeed a timescale, although the parameters can contain an element of flexibility. You are concerned that public confidence in an inquiry might be eroded if limits were set, but surely public confidence is eroded if public inquiries seem to go on and on, year after year. People might think that an inquiry will last one, two or three years, but they might still be waiting for an outcome after five, six, seven or eight years.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Sorry—that question is for Dr Ireton.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you. I will now open up the session to members.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Kenneth Gibson

We move to questions from Craig Hoy, to be followed by John Mason.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Good morning, and welcome to the 18th meeting in 2025 of the Finance and Public Administration Committee.

The first item on our agenda is evidence on the latest cost estimates for the Care Reform (Scotland) Bill from Maree Todd, Minister for Social Care, Mental Wellbeing and Sport. She is joined today by John Paul Liddle, deputy director, national care service; Ryan Anderson, head of the digital health and care policy and strategy unit; and Lee Flannigan, head of national care service finance at the Scottish Government. I welcome you all to the meeting and invite the minister to make a short opening statement.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Kenneth Gibson

I am not sure that “nihilistic” is the right word. Perhaps “pessimistic”—or, more likely, “realistic”.

The Scottish Government is providing a really good offer for carers. We are talking about an average of four weeks’ respite care per carer per year, of which 65 per cent is assumed to be residential care for the person being cared for, with the remainder being intensive home care at 22 hours a week. However, how many staff will that require by 2031-32, and where will we find them? It brings us back to the very beginning and what the bill is all about. As I mentioned a few minutes ago, it is trying to ensure equitable delivery of services across Scotland to the requisite standard. However, we cannot do that without people. How many people are you expecting to recruit over the next six years?