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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 22 May 2025
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Displaying 3259 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Kenneth Gibson

The financial memorandum makes clear that the money that will be available for financial support to the sector will be set in tablets of stone, so we are looking at exactly the same funding level from 2023-24 to 2027-28—£741.9 million. It is clear that the financial memorandum is already out of date, because the actual funding in the current financial year, according to page 94 of the Scottish budget 2024-25, is £738.9 million. That drops to £705.7 million, which is a 4.5 per cent decrease. Does that not knock a wee bit of a hole in the financial memorandum?

On page 96 of the Scottish budget, if we look at money for woodland grants, which has been raised in the chamber on several occasions, we see that you are again looking to hold the amount of money that is being invested in that area at £77.2 million, which is the current figure for this year. However, in next year’s budget, we are looking at a decline to £45.4 million, which is quite considerable.

How can we have faith in the figures for a period of five years when there are significant changes to the sums in the financial memorandum in the budget that we are about to vote on this month?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Kenneth Gibson

In paragraph 15 of the memorandum, you said:

“This mechanism will provide a platform to build momentum for private sector green finance investment by offering financial support explicitly linked to action for nature and action for climate on farms and crofts which should in turn give the land manager confidence to engage with private market investment in nature”.

However, a lot of the submissions are suggesting that the financial memorandum beds in vested interests and the status quo. The RSPB Scotland submission is the one that I have in front of me, but I have read four or five submissions that say almost the same thing. The RSPB Scotland submission says:

“the bottom 40% of recipients only receive 4.8% of the budget i.e., the larger businesses get most of the ‘income support’.”

It also states that less favoured area payments

“are not connected in any meaningful way to income and profitability”,

and that

“Farm Business Income data suggests, for example, that only 23% of LFA Cattle businesses have an income greater than zero without support payments”

whereas

“82% of general cropping farms, for example, make a profit without support.”

One could suggest that the bill basically continues with the status quo whereby LFA payments are made based on land rather than on what is happening on that land to achieve some of the objectives that the bill supposedly seeks to achieve.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Kenneth Gibson

That is not really what it says there. It suggests that they will still get the payments whether they meet those conditions or not. That is how it reads.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Kenneth Gibson

One issue that has come up is the cost of administration. Paragraph 47 of the financial memorandum says:

“The 2023-24 budgeted costs to administer payment, compliance and supporting services are £61m. This represents approximately 11% of the £692m budget for all current schemes.”

My arithmetic says that £61 million would be under 9 per cent of that, so I think that there is a wee error there. However, more importantly, the memorandum goes on to state:

“Future administrative costs under the proposed Future framework support are currently unclear and will depend on the chosen delivery model.”

That figure of £61 million is a lot of money for administration. What would it be spent on specifically and why are the future costs “unclear”?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Kenneth Gibson

We have been doing that for the past 90 minutes. How long is a piece of string? Has a date been set for when that will be resolved or will it meander on for weeks, months or even years?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Kenneth Gibson

So it is a kind of permanent revolution.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Kenneth Gibson

I thank the minister and Laura Parker for their evidence today. We will publish a short report to the Parliament setting out our decision on the draft order in due course.

09:31 Meeting suspended.  

09:50 On resuming—  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Kenneth Gibson

The Chartered Institute of Taxation has said that the only issue with the SSI is that it is “overly restrictive”, and the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Scotland is concerned that the Scottish Government is bringing in the SSIs piecemeal. That certainly appears to be the case. ICAS has suggested, as have members of the committee such as Liz Smith, that we should have

“a regular fiscal Bill which allows for a point in time at which all amendments to legislation are carried out rather than undertaking piecemeal changes to tax legislation”.

Would that not be a good way forward given the fact that it looks as though you might have to lodge another SSI to include the Police Authority?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you. John Mason has opted out, so the next member to ask questions will be Liz Smith.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Okay, so that is £7 million a year, in effect.