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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 18 May 2025
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Displaying 3259 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Kenneth Gibson

I did not see any change in the figures.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Adam, we touched earlier on the commissioners in Northern Ireland and Wales, and you say in your submission that Wales and Northern Ireland have had older people’s commissioners since 2006 and 2011 respectively, which is a considerable period of time. Your submission states:

“Both have had a positive impact on the experiences of older people, working together with older people to stand up for their rights, enact change and seek justice when things go wrong.”

What have they been able to achieve that we have not been able to achieve in the same space here in Scotland?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Craig Dalzell, at the start of your submission, you said:

“We believe that the Scottish Government is developing a risk-averse attitude in expanding the growth of Commissioners as it allows Government to claim the credit when policies are adopted and are successful but to ignore ‘inconvenient’ advice or to pass blame for failure.”

Have you got any examples of that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Kenneth Gibson

You talk about the Government developing “a risk-averse attitude” to expanding the growth of commissioners, but a lot of commissioners are coming from the ground up. Rob Holland, Adam Stachura and Jo McGilvray have made it clear that they are keen for additional commissioners, so it is not as if the Government is rolling out loads of commissioners to avoid responsibilities. A lot of them are coming from beneath. That is one of the issues that the committee is trying to address about the expansion of the entire landscape.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Kenneth Gibson

The Government would argue that it did not really lose the minister for older people; it just did not use the title. In fact, Adam Stachura and I talked about that last week and I commented on the issue in the Sunday Post. I think that older people should be in the title of a forthcoming minister. Removing the reference does not mean that the issues are put to one side; it just makes it look as though those people are not considered to be as important as others, which is an important issue.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Indeed.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you. That is indeed helpful. As normal, I will kick off with a few opening questions and I will then let colleagues in. Two members have already indicated that they wish to ask questions.

The main concern was that, in March, Scottish Government officials presented us with a financial memorandum for scrutiny that they already knew bore no resemblance to the actual bill costs, which they stated. If we look at the updated figures that we have been presented with, it seems that the costs in that memorandum were only about a quarter of the actual costs. I am sure that you will agree that, for the committee to carry out effective scrutiny prior to stage 1, we need the most up-to-date and accurate costs that are available.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Kenneth Gibson

There are six people who are keen to come in. Before I bring you in, Craig, I just note that, in your submission, you said:

“The Scottish Parliamentary Committees are themselves too weak and too vulnerable to being co-opted or ignored by Government”,

which I do not think is something that this committee would recognise as reality.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Kenneth Gibson

I will open the session to colleagues around the table.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Kenneth Gibson

Another issue that came out in our previous evidence session on the bill was the way in which figures are presented in the financial memorandum. Some of the figures are presented exactly, to the last pound, and others have rounding. That is a clear anomaly in a financial memorandum. One would expect one or the other, frankly. Also, we do not normally see the phrase “material and immaterial costs”. I see that Mr McGillivray is nodding. What is your view on that? How is it being addressed?