Seòmar agus comataidhean

Our experiences of the referendum were probably quite different. I spent the last 10 hours of that campaign in the BBC studios and was interviewed a number of times by BBC journalists from outwith Scotland.

Leaving that aside, I will move to my last question. There was an excellent programme on BBC Four this week about John Logie Baird, which I learned a great deal from. One question that struck me was why that would come from BBC Four. Given the impact, both on the BBC and on society, of John Logie Baird’s invention—one of his inventions still to come is 3D TV—and the work of Alexander Graham Bell, why is BBC Scotland not at the forefront of talking about how those two inventors have changed the face of society? Why does it have to be BBC Four that would cover that? Would it not have been a perfect opportunity for BBC Scotland to have covered something like that?

To go back to my point, did you find out what the continuing expenditure was after the project had been cancelled?

I have previously expressed this view in the Public Audit Committee, but the extent to which the Auditor General’s role has changed since it was first conceived surprises me. The range of things that you now comment on is much greater than it used to be. This morning, I think that I heard you on the TV talking about how the police should best marshal its resources to fight crime.

Given that, I ask you to go a wee bit beyond what you would normally comment on. You said at the start that Historic Environment Scotland is pooling about £70 million of money from external sources. It is certainly my view—I think that it is also, to some extent, the committee’s view—that the body could do an awful lot more with that. It has failed to properly exploit and capitalise on its resources, by which I mean its buildings and genealogical resources.

Did you come across anything in your report that pointed to such underresourcing and what the body could do about it, or do governance issues impact on its ability to properly exploit its resources? I wonder whether you have any views on that.

My first point is about the BBC charter. Rightly or wrongly, we all feel a bit more invested in the BBC because of its longevity and how it is funded. You said that political interference would be a bad thing. I am thinking about what people might perceive as political interference, for example, in relation to the charter renewals over a number of years. The licence fee has undoubtedly been the subject of such interference. The unanimous view of this panel of witnesses and, I think, all previous panels, is that we all want to see a strong BBC and a licence fee. Having said that, I agree that, for young people in particular, the licence fee will be accepted if it is deemed to be of value and relevant to them, which is an important consideration.

On the issue of news, it is interesting that, although all the politicians here have had their issues with the BBC, very few have had an issue with STV. I could be wrong, but it seems that STV does not attract the same kind of political attention. If we look at what is proposed at STV North, maybe that has not helped.

The issue with the political aspect is that it is more about what the BBC in Scotland does not cover than what it does. It seems to have an aversion to covering reserved issues that impact on Scotland as opposed to devolved issues. For example—it is probably best to give an example—we have had documentaries ad nauseam about the situation with the two ferries in Scotland, but two aircraft carriers were built in Scotland and that attracted virtually no attention from the BBC in Scotland. They were more than three times over budget and went massively over their timescale, but there was no coverage of that. The cost of that dwarfed the cost of the ferries. I have been raising this issue with individuals going as far back as Gordon Brewer, but the response seems to be that the BBC cannot get UK ministers to come on to programmes to answer questions.

I am interested in what Paul McManus said about Finland and disinformation. I said to some previous witnesses that most politicians here will do talks to modern studies pupils at school, and they are very often asked, “How do I know what to trust in what I see?” However, I think that it is more about what they do not get to see and to know about, and that is pervasive.

We had Mark Davie at our—is that his name?

Emily, do you want to come back in on that?

I have a final question on that last point. I have mentioned this before, and I am not sure that I am getting the point across well. Somebody else—I think it was the deputy convener—said something about watching TV at Christmas. It was a case of 57 channels and nothing on, in the words of the Bruce Springsteen song. There are lots of channels, and there is apparently a lot of diversity, but there are an awful lot of repeats.

Given that it is a global market, and given how dependent we are—even if we lose the IP—on people such as Paramount, Disney and Netflix and how valuable they can be if they decide to do something in Scotland, is it not the case that, especially in the light of the “River City” closure, we would benefit from establishing a base of engineers, production assistants, broadcasting people, writers and so on that everybody would contribute to? That is probably a question for Screen Scotland. That way, if those footloose multicountry companies wanted to do something in Scotland, they would know that all the expertise was already here.

That would be difficult to arrange. It is a diverse sector, and such an approach would require people to give up some control. That is the way that Ireland would do it. I am not saying that it does that in this context, but it does it in many other contexts. That would involve taking a team Scotland approach, which would mean that there would always be a bank of production assistants, directors of photography and so on available. The BBC would probably be the biggest player in that, but others could be part of it, too.

I do not know whether I am getting this point across well, but surely we want to sell ourselves in the best possible way to attract other big productions, if possible. Currently, if international production companies decide to come here—it is a very competitive market—they bring their own people from elsewhere. However, if they knew that we had top-class people in Scotland—sound engineers and all the rest of it—would that not increase Scotland’s attractiveness?

I cannot see how anybody could say that it is impartial, but we will leave that aside.

On the substantive question about the STV licence, when you first spoke, you quite rightly talked about various pressures in relation to how audiences are moving. I understand that point and do not disagree with it.

However, the point is that the licence was agreed months before STV sought to, in my view, completely change it. Glenn Preston provided a bit of an explanation for that, saying, “That might’ve happened two years ago, but it doesn’t matter what the licence renewal is; you are obliged to agree to what was previously agreed”, or words to that effect—I do not know exactly what the phrase was. Can you see why the public has absolutely no trust in the process? I am not saying that it is necessarily Ofcom’s fault, if the way that the Government has set it up is that you can only agree what was previously the licence.

On what you said about the way the audience is changing and trying to make sure that STV is sustainable, I note that that change has not just happened in the past few months; it has been going on for years—everyone has seen that. Do you understand why there is a complete lack of trust in the process among the public, who will expect that, when a licence is agreed, that will be that for the 10-year period, or at least a substantial part of it, rather than for a few months before it is completely changed?

11:15

Looking at how fundamentally STV is seeking to change it, and given what the public has a right to expect, I cannot see how you can do anything other than reject, at least substantially, what STV intends to do. Otherwise, you will just lose public trust.

I know that we are short of time, convener, so I will leave it at that.

Tim Davie, yes. He said that, every week, his door was opened by five or six Labour and Tory people, berating him for some content, and that closeness in London is what drives that agenda.

Scotland also loses out by not having as powerful a say on that agenda. I am talking about news broadcasting in particular. I am interested in any views on that and on what might help the BBC to resist continuing political interference.

We are interested in ferries, by the way—I am not saying that we are not interested in the ferries.