Chamber and committees

I understand the point that there is no prospect of an incoming UK Government looking again at Brexit. In fact, I think the Labour Party has now said that it will never return to the EU. However, I think that it is still incumbent on the Scottish Government to make as much progress as is possible, even though I can see that it will be at the margins.

I wonder about what is often called “soft power”. I remember being embraced physically once by a senior member of the Christian Democratic Union in Berlin, who said, “We like our Scottish friends”, and that they did not want us to leave them. I think that people have underestimated the extent to which personal affront was taken by people in the EU over the conduct over the Brexit agenda. That opens up an opportunity, if we can get the right relationships. It will not affect the processes, but having the right attitude from people—a positive view of Scotland—is very important. What are you able to do in that space to try to help things along?

We had a discussion earlier about the Irish way of dealing with such matters. Maybe this is a wee bit naive, but having observed the Irish for many years and the way in which they go about things, certainly in the EU but also globally, I have seen that they tend to work as team Ireland. They work in a very disciplined way, across parties and different tiers of government and elected representation. Different parties will pick a number of limited gains that they can achieve, and they tend not to make any enemies and not to get involved in some of the big bun fights in the EU. They have been very successful in doing that.

It would probably have to come at the end of a session, or at the start of a new session, but does the cabinet secretary think that there is any potential to have cross-party agreements on international representation that would take a team Scotland stance? I know that that will be complicated by the unresolved constitutional question, but it must still be possible to achieve that. If that were to be the case, it would probably need to be led by whoever was in government at the time. Is there any merit to pursuing such an approach?

Good morning, cabinet secretary. You mentioned the evidence that the committee has heard during its inquiries. At various points we have heard about jobs being lost and businesses going bust, virtually overnight, or stopping exporting. In some cases businesses have been taken over by their now parent companies in other countries, including Germany. We have also been told by someone—I forget the name of the chap who gave evidence; I think that it was a guy from Northern Ireland—that the UK was becoming the most expensive place in the world to do business. Witnesses have told us that it is now easier to do business with North Korea than with EU countries.

Given all those impacts of Brexit, and what you said might happen in a couple of weeks’ time, when I think that most people would assume that we will be looking at a different UK Government, do you have a prepared list of asks for it? Things could be done—before you say it again, I know that they will only happen at the margins—that would improve the situation both for people in Scotland and for businesses. Whoever is elected, a fresh set of eyes will be coming on to the issue at Westminster, so have you a list of early demands and requests that you think could help to improve things in Scotland?

That was my last question, but it is just worth mentioning in passing that the best example of non-Governmental soft power that I can think of is what we are seeing just now with the tartan army in Germany. Scotland’s reputation is being hugely boosted by their conduct.

We rely very much on security staff in the Parliament, so I wanted to mention that.

We have heard talk of a toxic environment and culture wars. We have even heard quite a chilling assertion that the Scottish Government should be involved in setting up the guidance, which I am sure would make a chill run down the spine of many in the artistic community. On the point about there being a toxic environment and what has led to that, there is a bit of misinformation. A member of this committee has referred to you as an SNP quango. I know that this sounds a bit absurd, but can you just confirm that the SNP has no control over, contact with or reporting lines to Creative Scotland? That would be useful for the public record.

In the detail that you sent to the committee, I noticed that there was to be a performance in Camden in London, as part of the proposal. Has any of the correspondence that you have received or the concerns that have been expressed to you come from outwith Scotland—from London, for example, or elsewhere?

Those are all the question that I have, convener.

You have said that the stoking of this controversy has led to—I forget your exact words—international awareness of the issue, which you said is not helpful to Scotland and its reputation throughout the world. I suggest that those who are responsible for the culture wars could not care less whether that is the case. There is a point to what they do in that regard; they are trying to undermine institutions such as yours.

However, you are partially funded by National Lottery funding. Just as the Scottish Government was not involved in this situation, I take it that the National Lottery was not involved, has not expressed concerns and is not in any way involved in this. Is that right?

I want to say at the start that Dean Ronaldson retires today after more than two decades of working here as a security guard, and I think that it is important that we put in the Official Report our thanks to him for his service over the past couple of decades.

Members: Hear, hear.

Thanks very much for that. I do not have any further questions. The question maybe caught all three members of the panel off guard but, if you have any further thoughts as to what Scotland could do, that would be interesting.

In relation to the examples of Canada and Germany, for context, I will just say that the Scottish Parliament—the so-called most powerful devolved Parliament in the world—does not have anything like the input that the provinces of Canada have with the federal Government there, or anything like the input that the Länder have in Germany.

On Mike Buckley’s point about asking the UK Government whether Scottish Government representatives could sit in with UK representatives, we actually have the reverse of that just now, in that the UK Government has insisted that, when the Scottish Government talks to other Governments, a UK Government representative must be there. On the issue of Brexit, Scotland, along with Wales and Northern Ireland, was completely excluded from the discussions and negotiations. We have a very highly centralised and controlling unitary state here, which is worth bearing in mind. However, if you have any further thoughts on what Scotland could do, that would be useful.

The point about Ireland is interesting, but I have to say that, if someone enjoys the standard of living in Ireland, which has raced past the standard of living in the UK, why would they want to come to the UK? The opportunities and the standard of living in Ireland are so much better than those in the UK now.

Thanks very much for those interesting responses.