The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
The Official Report search offers lots of different ways to find the information you’re looking for. The search is used as a professional tool by researchers and third-party organisations. It is also used by members of the public who may have less parliamentary awareness. This means it needs to provide the ability to run complex searches, and the ability to browse reports or perform a simple keyword search.
The web version of the Official Report has three different views:
Depending on the kind of search you want to do, one of these views will be the best option. The default view is to show the report for each meeting of Parliament or a committee. For a simple keyword search, the results will be shown by item of business.
When you choose to search by a particular MSP, the results returned will show each spoken contribution in Parliament or a committee, ordered by date with the most recent contributions first. This will usually return a lot of results, but you can refine your search by keyword, date and/or by meeting (committee or Chamber business).
We’ve chosen to display the entirety of each MSP’s contribution in the search results. This is intended to reduce the number of times that users need to click into an actual report to get the information that they’re looking for, but in some cases it can lead to very short contributions (“Yes.”) or very long ones (Ministerial statements, for example.) We’ll keep this under review and get feedback from users on whether this approach best meets their needs.
There are two types of keyword search:
If you select an MSP’s name from the dropdown menu, and add a phrase in quotation marks to the keyword field, then the search will return only examples of when the MSP said those exact words. You can further refine this search by adding a date range or selecting a particular committee or Meeting of the Parliament.
It’s also possible to run basic Boolean searches. For example:
There are two ways of searching by date.
You can either use the Start date and End date options to run a search across a particular date range. For example, you may know that a particular subject was discussed at some point in the last few weeks and choose a date range to reflect that.
Alternatively, you can use one of the pre-defined date ranges under “Select a time period”. These are:
If you search by an individual session, the list of MSPs and committees will automatically update to show only the MSPs and committees which were current during that session. For example, if you select Session 1 you will be show a list of MSPs and committees from Session 1.
If you add a custom date range which crosses more than one session of Parliament, the lists of MSPs and committees will update to show the information that was current at that time.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
Displaying 1428 contributions
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 21 November 2023
Shona Robison
That is a fair comment and a fair assessment, and we would have to consider that. The principles were a set of compromises that emerged from a political negotiation. We have probably learned from that process. In relation to what we just discussed about VAT assignment, it is necessary to be clear and careful about what is part of that negotiation. Some of those areas were inserted into the Smith commission at the last minute.
The principles would need to be looked at. We would be in a completely different era with a completely different set of arrangements, so we would have to look at it in the round.
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 21 November 2023
Shona Robison
That point has been made on a number of occasions. There is scope and a need for a discussion of those fundamental issues. We would have liked to have got into that space, but, as I said at the start, when you are in a negotiation, you can only negotiate within the parameters of the other party’s willingness. In this case, those parameters were narrow, so a judgment had to be made.
Those issues remain on the table. As you have pointed out, the prudential borrowing powers of local authorities are markedly different compared with those of the Scottish Government and other devolved Administrations across the world, and that is not acceptable. Those matters remain live and we want to get into the space of further negotiation on them. However, this negotiation was very limited in scope.
09:45
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 21 November 2023
Shona Robison
We had to be pragmatic. I would not want to underestimate the gain that was made with the adoption of the indexed per capita block grant adjustment methodology on a permanent basis. In my opening statement, I set out that that could be worth around £500 million per year by 2026-27, so that was important. I was also mindful of the potential negative tax reconciliation quantum for 2024-25. We are now in a different space with the quantum, but at the start of the process, we did not know what it would be and it would have had a material impact on our budget next year. Therefore, being able to increase our resource borrowing powers from £300 million to £600 million was important, and that will be able to cover all the negative tax reconciliation for next year. Those things were uppermost in my mind. I accept that, if we had started with a fresh negotiation, other matters—some of which you have mentioned—would have been on the table. However, in order to secure some immediate benefit, I made that judgment and that was our conclusion. The negotiation took place within a limited window of opportunity.
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 21 November 2023
Shona Robison
Thank you, convener, and good morning. I am pleased to have the opportunity to attend this meeting to discuss the recent fiscal framework review.
The agreement with the United Kingdom Government to publish an updated version of the Scottish fiscal framework on 2 August fulfilled a key commitment in the First Minister’s policy prospectus. Since the fiscal framework was agreed in early 2016, it has been thoroughly stress tested as Brexit, the pandemic and the cost of living crisis have unfolded. Therefore, it was right to review arrangements and consider improvements.
The new agreement with the UK Government includes a balanced set of changes that strengthen the financial management tools that are available to the Scottish Government and provide the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government with greater long-term funding certainty. That said, I want to be clear that the review was not as broad in scope as the Scottish Government would have liked it to be. That reflects the fact that the scope and process for the review and its outcome were subject to agreement with the UK Government. Nonetheless, under the circumstances, the revised agreement represents meaningful progress and a good outcome for Scotland.
The adoption of the indexed per capita block grant adjustment methodology on a permanent basis is a significant win for Scotland. The authors of the independent report estimated that the use of the indexed per capita methodology for calculating income tax block grant adjustments alone could be worth around £500 million a year by 2026-27 compared with the use of other methodologies that were considered in 2016.
The agreement also provides a substantial increase in the Scottish Government’s resource borrowing powers to manage tax and social security forecast errors—the amount has doubled from £300 million a year to up to £600 million a year of borrowing capacity. That greatly improves the Scottish Government’s ability to manage and smooth funding volatility driven by forecast error.
The removal of drawdown limits on the Scottish reserve is also an important development. It provides a significant increase in reserve flexibility and improves the Scottish Government’s ability to manage funding across financial years.
The agreement to uprate borrowing and reserve limits in line with inflation ensures that the effectiveness of those powers will be maintained in real terms, which makes Scotland’s financial management arrangements more sustainable.
Taken together, and within the context of the narrowly scoped review that was on offer, those are meaningful improvements to the framework and the financial management tools that are available to the Scottish Government.
That said, we should not lose sight of the scale of the fiscal challenge in the aftermath of the pandemic, the on-going cost of living crisis and the urgent need to tackle climate change. Although the changes to the framework are welcome, they are not of the magnitude required to offset that broader fiscal challenge. That requires action by the UK Government and I hope that the Chancellor of the Exchequer will heed calls from the Scottish Government to take action on public services, fuel poverty, net zero and the cost of living as part of tomorrow’s autumn statement.
I also understand the concerns that the committee expressed about the process surrounding the review and its timing. The Scottish Government’s preference had been for a process involving broad stakeholder involvement. However, when a window of opportunity emerged earlier this year to conclude an agreement with the UK Government on changes to the framework, I was mindful of the value of securing borrowing powers ahead of the 2024-25 budget and that we were dealing with a UK Government that is likely to go into election mode soon. In that context, I judged that it was appropriate and prudent to conclude a deal when it became possible to do so.
I hope that the committee recognises the improvements that have been secured through the revised agreement and I look forward to discussing the detailed arrangements.
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 21 November 2023
Shona Robison
Matthew Elsby, do you want to come in on that? I think that it is fair to say that risk is inherent in every decision. I guess that our starting point was to minimise that risk for the Scottish Government and what came out of the review does that.
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 21 November 2023
Shona Robison
As you can imagine, we pushed on a number of fronts to try to get the maximum benefit and best deal and were more successful in some areas than in others. Getting indexation was better than getting nothing on capital, but we would clearly have wanted that to go further.
The biggest challenge that we face comes from capital borrowing limits. As part of the budget, I will lay out the full implications of that for the Scottish budget and for infrastructure projects. It is a real challenge and links directly to the economy, economic growth and the ability to invest in Scotland’s infrastructure. Capital borrowing limits are crucial and will be a major impediment to growth. We got as much as we could achieve, but were just not able to expand the basket of measures that were being looked at.
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 3 October 2023
Shona Robison
You are right that the outlook goes beyond the next budget. When I set out the medium-term financial strategy—the MTFS—I was clear about the projections of the gap that had to be addressed and the levers that we would use to do that. It is about ensuring that we make decisions that prioritise and target, that we grow the economy and the tax take from that, and that we take the decisions that we need to take in order to close that gap. However, that is very challenging, given the headwinds that are here and those that will come at us next year and beyond. I cannot overestimate the impact of inflation in all of that. Its impact is profound in every single part of the public sector.
No tax system is perfect—let us put that out there as a point of agreement. When the Parliament and its tax powers were established, the starting point was the UK tax system, so we did not start from a blank sheet of paper. With the additional tax bands, we have tried to bring some fairness and more progressivity to our system by recognising that it is not fair to have such a wide-ranging income band in the UK tax system that is taxed at the same rate. That is very difficult to defend. By bringing in the additional bands, we have tried to make the system fairer and more progressive.
We continue to look at what needs to be done. One of the reasons why we established the expert group, which has met twice now, was to look at a number of issues around a longer-term view of the tax system and what it will look like. It was also established to take a more strategic approach to tax, which the UK certainly has not done—we are at the foothills of trying to do that—and to try to get more transparency in people understanding what the tax system does. There is still some confusion about the interaction between the UK and Scottish tax systems, so there is a genuine attempt to try to make that more visible and to be quite frank about some of the decisions, and the consequences of those decisions, on what we do with our tax system. As I started off by saying, the revenues generated by taking decisions that are different from those of the UK Government have been important in really difficult financial times. If we had not done that, we would have to have made even more difficult decisions.
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 3 October 2023
Shona Robison
Public sector reform is really important. I lead on that across Government in order to ensure that a strategic view is taken across the whole of Government. First, there is some low-hanging fruit that all public sector bodies should be aiming for around efficiency and digitisation. There are some great examples of organisations that have become far more efficient—in difficult financial times, that is important—and that are able to deliver an improved service to the public, but for less money. All those things should absolutely happen.
11:45We then get into the more complicated territory of potential mergers and amalgamations and of whether people can share services or buildings. That brings us back to our earlier discussion. All those things are on the table, along with the workforce level that each public sector body requires and, frankly, a bit of a presumption against new public bodies. We now have a system of needing explicit ministerial approval for the creation of any new public bodies. There are still some in the pipeline, because parliamentary decisions lead to the creation of new public bodies. I am not pushing back on those decisions or saying whether they were right or wrong, but I guess that there is a role for Parliament in taking a step back and looking at the multitude of public bodies that we have that are in the parliamentary space. For example, we have a number of commissioners, some of which overlap. There is a bit of a need—which should not be pushed by Government—for Parliament to look at what makes sense in that landscape.
We all have to be acutely aware of the need to leave no stone unturned when it comes to how can we extract better value for every public pound, every public sector body and every commissioner’s office, given that the finances are so constrained. Not only the Government but all of us have a responsibility to consider such matters.
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 3 October 2023
Shona Robison
You are right. The capital investments that we make are important for economic growth. That is why it is extremely concerning that the UK Government did not inflation-proof its capital budget, which has resulted in a 7 per cent real-terms fall in our Barnett capital funding over the medium term between 2023-24 and 2027-28. That has significantly impacted on our ability to deliver on the capital infrastructure commitments, and it will impact on it going forward. We are looking at the choices that we have to make. That alone, plus the fact that construction inflation was running at 25 per cent last summer, has an impact on the money that we have, what it can purchase, what it can build and how far it goes. There is a double whammy of less capital and that capital not going as far as it once did. That is a huge issue for us.
What do we do about it? I have set out in the MTFS and since then that we are revisiting our capital budget and our infrastructure investment plan. We will set those out alongside the budget for 2024-25. We are also looking at how we might be able to lever in some of the private finance that we talked about in relation to additional capital that is available from other sources.
We will leave no stone unturned as we continue to make progress on the infrastructure that we have. The Audit Scotland paper “Investing in Scotland’s infrastructure” identified all the issues and the challenges that are left in terms of the decisions that we have to make. As I said, we will have to make those decisions in a way that prioritises the projects that we think will have the biggest impact. That may slow down the delivery of some other projects over the next few years; there is no getting away from that.
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 3 October 2023
Shona Robison
I will bring Andrew Scott in with further detail in a second. First, public awareness is an issue. Some research that was presented to the expert group showed that the fact that there are two tax systems is not entirely understood. People’s awareness of what they get for the taxes that they pay is also an issue. The Scottish Government has attempted to lay that out in clearer terms in—