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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 19 December 2025
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Displaying 3427 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Shona Robison

Let me say a few things. We have explored that at length—I know that, when Shirley-Anne Somerville gave evidence to the committee, she explored some of the issues. It is worth bearing in mind that the system that has been set up in Scotland was based on cross-party support for the secondary legislation that set out the eligibility methods for social security. All the parties in the Parliament wanted the principles of fairness, dignity and respect and there was cross-party consensus on the criteria for assessment and so on. The system did not emerge out of nowhere—quite rightly, people wanted it to look and feel different from the system south of the border.

That said, it is important that we have a system that works for those receiving the benefits and for the taxpayer. For example—again, we have explored this at length—the difference between the reviews and assessments by the DWP and those by Social Security Scotland is not as black and white as the figures suggest. Shirley-Anne Somerville made the point that getting it right first time means that there are less likely to be successful appeals. If I remember correctly, the figure is reduced to about 9 per cent if you consider the number of people who win their appeal under the DWP system. Although there is still a difference between Scotland and the rest of the UK, it is markedly narrower because of the number of cases that are won on appeal.

11:30  

You probably heard from Shirley-Anne Somerville that Social Security Scotland is looking at the reviews. To be fair to Social Security Scotland, the focus has been on safe and secure transfer of existing cases. Given that the number of cases is about 350,000, it was important to ensure that that was done properly. Social Security Scotland is now looking at how the review system can ensure that people receive the money that they should receive and that their needs are as they were previously, because some people’s needs change.

Shirley-Anne Somerville also put on record an important point, which is that the proportion of the resource budget that the Scottish Government has chosen to invest in enhancing social security in Scotland compared with England and Wales is projected to increase by less than 1 per cent by 2029-30, compared with the current financial year. As I said earlier, there are some moving parts around welfare reform—U-turns and the two-child cap—so that figure might reduce even further, because the forecasts have not been adjusted—

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Shona Robison

I will check and come back to the committee—I do not remember what the figure was, but there was a lot of interest.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Shona Robison

I have two things to say about that. First, those bodies might have been further advanced in their thinking to be able to put in the proposition, which had to be quite detailed and robust. Secondly, no part of the public sector is going to be able to stand back and say, “This is not for me.”

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Shona Robison

We are trying to build on the progress that we have made previously. We are keen to hear ideas and have discussions about where there might be landing space for support for the budget. There are relationships to build on from last year’s budget, when we secured the support of Liberal Democrat and Green colleagues, but we will continue to have discussions with others.

I am mindful that Mr Hoy’s colleague Liz Smith will be keen to get support for her Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill, for example, so that may bring a different approach to the budget.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Shona Robison

We will have to have an honest conversation with local government. I am conscious of the conversation that we have just had about the fiscal framework and about there being no surprises. The shared service space is a massive opportunity for local government, so there is a discussion to be had about what lies best where. Some activities might be best done on a regional basis, and some might be best done on a once-for-Scotland basis.

The same issues apply to planning, although that is a little more complex because of planning authority rules. We have developed the national hub to supplement the role of local government in planning decisions, because local authorities are all battling for the same people and fishing in the same pond of a small number of individuals. You see people moving between authorities.

To be honest, it would get me into some difficulty under the Verity house agreement if I said to local government, “You have to share services here,” but councils really need to begin to think about shared services. There are good examples, including waste management services that are provided by one authority to others, which has saved a lot of money. However, that needs to happen by default. Local authorities need to look at whether they can provide a service on a regional basis, because the fiscal position requires them to consider that.

We will continue to have such discussions. Trading standards is a good example of where we might be coming to the point at which there is no choice but to share the service, but we need to do it on a planned basis rather than as a result of service failure.

I am keen to continue to have those discussions and to look at ways of encouraging and incentivising such thinking.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Shona Robison

We have had deep dives within each of the portfolios, looking at line-by-line spending decisions, including in the culture space. Those discussions are very active. Although there is an increasing profile of investment in culture, those organisations absolutely need to ensure that they are fiscally sustainable and are delivering value for money. For example, could they be looking at whether something could be done in the shared service space? Could the national performance companies share personnel? They need to look at all that in the same way as any other organisation would.

Creative Scotland is going through its review. It needs to be active on fiscal sustainability. A lot of organisations could be more effective at attracting private sector funding, for example, and it could support them to have the means to go about that. Some organisations are very effective in that area, while others are not. It could look at sharing best practice in attracting investment from elsewhere, as well as in organisations using the core funding that they receive. So, the short answer is yes; organisations should absolutely look at all of that.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Shona Robison

I recognise the issue about the marginal rate. It is very difficult to do anything about it in the current climate, given how much it would cost, but I do not dismiss that.

The first thing to say about the tax system is that the more people understand it, the higher the compliance rates. There is some complexity in the system, and people do not always understand how the Scottish tax system is different, or even that we have a Scottish tax system and what that system is. We have been doing work to raise awareness of what the Scottish tax system is and what people’s obligations are, because we want to drive high levels of compliance with that system.

Aligned with that is the issue of stability. We have provided stability on income tax for the remainder of this session of Parliament. That will help people to manage their finances, and it will help businesses to plan and to make investment decisions with confidence, knowing what the future holds. That is why we made that decision.

I should say that, for the first time, the MTFS identifies areas of research interest on tax to support the gathering of evidence and the evaluation of tax policy, because we want to ensure that, whether on enhanced compliance, taxpayer communications or tax legislation, we have the best available evidence for future decisions. As you know, we are considering future reforms in relation to land values, in particular, and we have asked the Scottish Land Commission to look at that. However, those are matters for the future rather than the immediate term.

Earlier, I mentioned that we are looking at how to generate additional tax revenues, partly to ensure that our economy is growing. We have some good indicators on the Scottish economy, even though times are tough. There are UK Government policies, such as the policy on ENICs, that have had a dampening effect on recruitment and the growth of companies. The ENICs increases have definitely had an impact on vacancy rates. As a counter to that, some sectors in Scotland are doing extremely well. We want to make sure that, through NSET, our policies, our support and our agencies are facing in the same direction to help those sectors to continue to grow and to do well. Many of them do very well on the global stage, not just in a UK context.

That was a long-winded answer. We are looking at certainty, compliance and the growth of the economy.

My final point is that one lever that we do not have, which is critical to many of our sectors, is the one that relates to skills and migration. Many sectors tell us all the time that they cannot get the people they need and that it is more difficult for them to recruit from elsewhere. That is a major impediment.

On the positive side, we still have net in-migration to Scotland from the rest of the UK across all tax bands. That is a good thing, but we would like to do more in that space, because there are sectors that want to recruit.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Shona Robison

Yes, absolutely. It is one of my busiest times.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Shona Robison

That came up in our previous session. A further example is prioritisation within portfolios. For example, in the health portfolio, clear priority has been given to patient-facing front-line health boards that have received, and will continue to receive, a real-terms uplift, whereas non-patient-facing health boards have flat cash and a higher level of efficiency savings. We are saying, “Right folks, patient-facing front-line health boards need to be the priority. Other areas of the national health service will have to do things differently to drive efficiency savings, such as looking at shared services and so on.” Even within portfolios, we are trying to ensure that priority is given to front-line services.

10:15  

The 20 per cent target for the reduction in corporate staff numbers is sending a clear message that corporate functions in the public sector need to be done differently. Staff numbers need to reduce and services need to use digital innovation and automation in order to release savings for front-line services. That needs to permeate through every part of the public sector and every portfolio interest. That is the principle of what we are working towards.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Shona Robison

I recognise the importance of our further education and higher education sectors. The college sector received an increase in teaching funding in the 2025-26 budget—