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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 19 December 2025
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Displaying 3427 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Shona Robison

I guess that the overall answer is yes. Every part of the public sector would be looked at in terms of the contribution that it can make.

Without giving away any trade secrets, we have been having a debate about whether the bulk of the overall spend—whether it is in colleges, childcare or health—does enough to eradicate child poverty. We have a tendency sometimes to focus on the new bits of funding. There is a question about the rest of the tens of billions of funding through our various structures. I am quite thoughtful about that. Whether it is colleges or the health service, we need to interrogate whether what they are doing—for example with our childcare programmes—is going as far as it could to lift families out of poverty.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Shona Robison

We will continue to discuss with business the best way to shape the funding that is available in order to have the outcomes that we want.

For example, we are talking to the hospitality sector at the moment about whether the current regime that is focused on turnover is fair to the hospitality sector compared to retail. We are not absolutely wedded to doing things the way that they have always been done. We are all cognisant of the current climate in which businesses are trying to recover from Covid and of the headwinds that are impacting on small businesses in particular, but it is not a bad challenge to say that the small business sector might have ideas.

We are talking to business and engaging with it on what the future looks like. It is a good time to have those discussions and to frame the issue in a way that shows that it is not about taking something away but about what investments could work better. I will continue to have those discussions through the budget process and into manifesto territory.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Shona Robison

We can come back to you on that.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Shona Robison

I will come back to you on that. I feel that discussions with the UK Government are in a better place now.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Shona Robison

I guess that that is just drawing the distinction between saying that we would like to have VAT along with all the other revenue-raising powers, but that it cannot be through a system of assigned revenues. It is a matter of distinguishing between the principle and what was being suggested in relation to assigned revenues, because that is where the risk is. If the UK Government was to turn around tomorrow and say that it will give us responsibility over VAT full stop, that would be a very different matter.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Shona Robison

That is why we took action in June to set out where we would close the gap. Clearly, there are some moving parts around the spending review. For example, on social security spend, the updated forecasts in the autumn will show the movement in the block grant because of the U-turn on welfare policy, which will probably adjust the projection by about £440 million by 2029-30.

There are other unknowns—for example, if there is an announcement on the two-child cap; we have factored in about £150 million to start with, but that grows as the projection goes towards 2029-30. At the moment, there are some unknowns that will impact on that gap, in addition to the steps that we have already set out. We will make sure that the committee is updated as we get confirmation of those forecasts.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Shona Robison

Let me deal with the £36 million. That relates to the total sum of historic devolved debts that were either transferred to the Scottish Government under devolution or accrued under the lifetime of the agency agreement, when the DWP was still administering. That is historic debt, not somehow something that was created—

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Shona Robison

We will not let it go. Social Security Scotland will continue to take a zero tolerance approach to fraud. Any decision to write off any debts will be made only on an exceptional basis and after a full assessment has been taken.

I can take you through a lot of the detail of what Social Security Scotland is doing. It is using intelligence gathering and working with partners to identify and respond to fraud quickly and effectively, and suspected fraud is actively being referred to the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service—a number of cases are already with the Crown Office, and it is ensuring that it is recovering overpayments. It has recovered a significant amount of money in the past two years. Although more needs to be done, I would not want anybody to have anything other than the impression that Social Security Scotland takes a zero tolerance approach to overpayment or fraud.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Shona Robison

That does not mean that it is correct.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 30 September 2025

Shona Robison

Look—I say again that, in setting pay policy, we draw on the range of judgments that are in front of us at the time. The policy was based on inflation forecasts over the three-year period and on a desire for long-term certainty on public sector workers’ pay. That is why we tied in the fact that anything that went beyond 3 per cent for year 1 would have to be a multiyear deal. We had to buy some peace in the industrial landscape through multiyear deals, and we have been quite successful.