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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 31 October 2025
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Displaying 706 contributions

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Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Rhoda Grant

As part of the panel of advisers, NatureScot would obviously be giving advice, but anybody else on that panel would know that, at the end of the day, it is the regulator. That would create a bit of an imbalance on the panels, because the gamekeeper, who will be making sure that everybody else complies with whatever comes out of that panel’s advice, will also be sitting on the panel. It just seems that that would set an imbalance for people.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Rhoda Grant

I guess that the conflict lies in the fact that an advisory panel gives advice and it is up to Government whether it takes that advice. If the advice was different from the decision that was made, NatureScot would still have to police compliance with that, even though the panel obviously did not agree with the decision or want it to be implemented.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Rhoda Grant

Yes, but if its advice is different from the action that is taken, how can you then say that it is an impartial enforcer?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Rhoda Grant

It is just that they can do that on land that they tenant, not on land where excess numbers of deer are having an impact. I am not saying that properly—what I mean is that the deer move about and, if they are not caught in the act, the occupier cannot do anything.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Rhoda Grant

Having a separation of powers is a well-known way of working—the person in charge of policing something does not make the regulation. If someone does not agree with what is being proposed in discussions that have been carried out in an open forum, how can people trust them to regulate the implementation of that in a transparent way? You say that the NatureScot members on the panels are public officials and they are bound not to work in a detrimental way, but they are still human beings. That is why we tend to have that separation of powers, whereas it feels like there is a real conflict in the proposal that is before us. It is fine if everything is working and everyone is in agreement, but you would not need those panels if everyone was in full agreement. How do you prevent the conflict?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Rhoda Grant

This is off the top of my head—I know that we do not have a great deal of time, convener. Let us say that the advisory panel says that we need to get deer numbers down to five per hectare and NatureScot says that 10 per hectare would be fine. NatureScot would have to police getting that number down to five. What confidence could people have that NatureScot would police that when everyone knows that it thinks that 10 is the right number?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Rhoda Grant

Would the bill benefit from the inclusion of a collection of target-setting criteria such as those that were included in the climate legislation, which could set the parameters for those targets? That was suggested by Open Seas.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Rhoda Grant

So, it is about co-ordinating the other pieces of legislation.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Rhoda Grant

If we bear in mind that delegated powers already exist in this area, why is a new, single, overarching power needed to enable Scottish ministers to modify Scottish EIA legislation and the habitats regulations?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 3 June 2025

Rhoda Grant

Amendment 339 would make land management plans subject to a public interest test, requiring landowners to consider the public interest when pursuing such plans. Owning large areas of land is a privilege and therefore large landowners need to consider the impact of their activities on the wider public when drawing up their land management plans.

Amendment 342 seeks to expand the definition of land that is subject to obligations under proposed new section 44A of the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2016 to include public interest determinations. It would also add public interest criteria for applying land management obligations and would allow the Government to impose public goods obligations on large landowners. Too often, we hear of communities that cannot access land for vital community interests such as housing and food production. The amendment would empower the Government to step in where community efforts have failed.

Amendment 348 is a technical amendment that is consequential to amendment 342 and would include proposed new section 44D to the 2016 act in the list of relevant sections.

I support other amendments in the group from Mercedes Villalba, Michael Matheson and Ariane Burgess. It is clear that we need a public interest test for many aspects of the bill for the reasons that Mark Ruskell has laid out, which I will not repeat. I look forward to hearing the cabinet secretary’s thoughts on which amendments would best do that.