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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 15 July 2025
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Displaying 1264 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Pauline McNeill

The policy note says that the financial impacts are

“anticipated to be unchanged as a result of the implementation of restitution orders.”

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Pauline McNeill

Is that possibly why there have been only 103 restitution orders?

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Pauline McNeill

I will follow up on what you talked about, Tracey, which has also been a running theme. We have all these documents and strategies and lots of things that we are doing really well but the prison regime is completely overcrowded—we are not unusual in that in Scotland, because England has the same problem. That overcrowding is stressing out the staff who run the services and is impacting on prisoners, most of whom, according to the survey, do not even get out of their cells for more than an hour a day and some of whom are doubling up—I do not know what that looks like, but that is the regime in which we are operating—so it is not easy. You said to Sharon Dowey that there is no consistency there.

It is shocking that a prisoner who has opted to go on a programme and is in recovery could be transferred to another prison, when everybody wants that recovery, including the community and the individual. That begs the question that I will ask Tracey first: instead of all the endless documents, is it time that prisoners had a categoric right to continue their rehabilitation or recovery? I am sure that other members feel the same. I get many letters from prisoners about the waiting list for rehabilitation. They cannot get on the list and they say, “I want to do things to get into recovery.” Is it time to take a different approach?

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Pauline McNeill

As you said, cabinet secretary, whether to impose restitution orders is a matter for the courts to decide. We have heard that there have been 103 such orders and that in a given case the court can impose either a fine or a restitution order. From what I have read, it seems that the amount of any restitution order should be broadly the same as that of any fine that the court might have imposed. Does that mean that the courts have complete freedom to decide which of those options they want to apply? Is there guidance on when a restitution order should be used, or are there any criteria for that?

10:15  

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Pauline McNeill

I had not appreciated that a restitution order could be imposed as well as a fine. I have not looked recently at the repayment figures for fines. I know that, in the past, there have been problems with collecting fines—I do not know whether that is still the case. I would think that someone’s ability to pay might be a consideration. If a court imposes a fine and is thinking about making a restitution order, presumably it would use some kind of self-imposed criteria to decide whether the offender could afford that, otherwise we would not get the return on it.

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Pauline McNeill

You said in your submission that provision depends on what prison someone ends up in. Do specific prisons not provide recovery programmes, or is it random? Are there specific prisons that you could point to and say, “If you get moved to that prison, you will not get a programme of recovery”?

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Pauline McNeill

Is it down to governors?

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Pauline McNeill

Thank you. I take the point that we are clearly locking too many people up, given that those on remand are a quarter of the prison population, but I am interested to hear that they do not seem to get access to the same treatment while they are there. I understand that there are some legal aspects to how remand prisoners are treated, but when it comes to support, if they have started taking drugs while they are in jail—the number of prisoners who do so is high enough—there surely should be no distinction between prisoners and remand prisoners? What do you think, Gemma?

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Pauline McNeill

I am glad you added that in, because I have a case exactly like that in Glasgow right now.

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Pauline McNeill

Cabinet secretary, I just want to check that I have understood what you said about what the courts can do. I agree that there should be more encouragement to use the orders, but the Scottish Government policy note says:

“We anticipate that in a given situation the level of financial penalty imposed by the courts is likely to be the same regardless of whether it is a restitution order or another financial penalty such as a fine. The financial impact on the offender and their family, and any resulting impacts, are therefore anticipated to be unchanged as a result of the implementation of restitution orders.”

My reading of that is that, if a court were considering applying a restitution order, that would not necessarily be in addition to a fine, so that would not be a barrier. However, I thought that you said that it can impose both. Did you mean that if it does impose both, the financial penalty should not be higher than it would have been had the court applied only a fine?