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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 17 June 2025
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Displaying 1239 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2023

Pauline McNeill

I have one final question for Ronnie Renucci. We have been hearing that the not proven verdict is used a lot in rape cases. Have you any comment on whether, in your experience—I realise that this is just your evidence—there is a tendency for not proven verdicts in rape cases?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2023

Pauline McNeill

I understand. Do you have any view on why that is?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2023

Pauline McNeill

Thank you. That is really helpful.

I said to the previous panel that most of us are laypeople so are a bit unfamiliar with a lot of practices, certainly in relation to prosecution policy. Broadly speaking, when you are marking a case—for example, a rape case—I presume that there is some guidance for prosecutors on how to decide whether the evidence is there to take a case forward. Is it harder to do that in rape cases than in other cases?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2023

Pauline McNeill

Do you think that it would be a good use of the Parliament’s time to take through the necessary legislation to allow for research such as that done by Cheryl Thomas?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2023

Pauline McNeill

My final question is about the numbers on the jury if the not proven verdict were to be removed. The profession would prefer a unanimous jury but would accept, as in England, a majority of 10 to two. I understand that your fundamental position is to retain the not proven verdict. Ronnie Renucci, can you talk the committee through what, you think, the Crown would have to show in order to get a conviction? To a layperson, you are saying that the jury is required to have a unanimous verdict before you could convict, and that sounds like it would be really difficult to get a conviction, whereas a majority of 10 to two seems to allow for it. However, of course, we do not understand how juries operate or the proceedings of a court.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2023

Pauline McNeill

That is helpful. Finally, given the hundreds of cases that you have—

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2023

Pauline McNeill

I understand most of it, but I just want to clarify that, as the proposals stand—not for the other suggestion—it is still the Crown’s position that there should be the option of a retrial under the Government’s proposal for a majority of eight to four. Would you still argue for that?

12:00  

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2023

Pauline McNeill

That is in your seven to five scenario.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2023

Pauline McNeill

Good morning. Have you any comment to make on some of the evidence that we have heard on the use of not proven in rape cases? I am trying to understand this. There is the use of not proven in not guilty verdicts in rape cases, and then there is the comparison with other crimes, which, I imagine, will look different. Is there anything that you can tell the committee from your experience or practice about the use of not proven in rape cases? Do you have any concern that it is used too often, or do you have no concerns at all?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2023

Pauline McNeill

Finally, your submission suggests that, if there were an increase in the majority that is required for a jury to convict, consideration should be given to the prosecution being able to seek a retrial where the higher majority is not reached. Is that your policy position? In other words, are you arguing for that anyway? Why would you not argue for having a retrial policy in the current verdict system? How radical a suggestion is that? From a layperson’s reading, it seems quite radical to introduce that question. While we have been debating the three verdicts and the majorities, you have thrown into the mix the idea that there should be scope for a retrial. I have absolutely no idea how radical that is. If you could speak to that, that would be great.