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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 17 June 2025
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Displaying 1239 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Management of Sexual Offences Cases

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

Pauline McNeill

My final question relates to that. There have been many discussions in the Parliament about how we tackle the crime of rape, for which there seems to be a low conviction rate. It looks as though the specialist sexual offences court would not have the same status or the same rights of audience as the High Court. I assume that it has been designed that way to reflect the status of rape as a serious crime that, as a plea to the Crown, can be tried only in the High Court. If the bill does not reflect your recommendations about rights of audience, will you be concerned that the specialist sexual offences court will look like a lower court?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2023

Pauline McNeill

Thank you. Stuart Murray, you had an exchange with Katy Clark about the research that the Government is relying on. The policy memorandum is quite clear that the evidence used for removing the verdict is the research involving 900 mock jurors. Do you think that the Government would be taken more seriously on that research if we addressed the question of the Contempt of Court Act 1981 and, perhaps, as a part of this bill, legislated to allow research to be done on juries and trends in juries and how they come to their decisions?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2023

Pauline McNeill

Thank you. My final set of questions is for Ronnie Renucci. You have probably seen some of the exchanges in the Official Report of this committee in relation to the three verdicts, including last week’s evidence from Joe Duffy and Rape Crisis Scotland. In your opening remarks, you talked about what the Crown had to prove. Do you think that there has been enough discussion about how the judge charges the jury, if you like? Rather than debating the cold, clinical aspects of removing a verdict, would it be more useful to discuss what the jury is actually asked to do when it is deciding on a conviction?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2023

Pauline McNeill

But that is what the provisions are.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2023

Pauline McNeill

But the Crown is not satisfied with that.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2023

Pauline McNeill

If you are right and there would be public concern, why does the Government not just legislate for a majority of seven to five?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2023

Pauline McNeill

I know what you are saying, but the legislation would not say that, if it were passed.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2023

Pauline McNeill

You have said quite a lot.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2023

Pauline McNeill

Good morning. I put my first question to Stuart Munro. The question of the three-verdict system has long been debated in Scotland. You might remember that Michael McMahon, a Labour Party member, introduced a bill on the issue many years ago. If the Parliament decides to retain the not proven verdict, do you think that we will always be discussing the three-verdict system, given that it is unusual? Secondly, do you think that the Government’s rationale for changing it is clear?

11:00  

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2023

Pauline McNeill

Yes, thank you. None of us, apart from Katy Clark, has practised criminal law in the courts, so we are learning as we go. What I am really driving at is this: is it fair to say that the instructions that the jury will be given will be primarily around the Crown proving its case beyond reasonable doubt? In other words, the first question is not about what verdict you are going to choose. Is it fair to say that the jury will be directed to decide guilt or innocence, and then have to decide which verdict is appropriate?