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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 14 June 2025
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Displaying 1227 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Pauline McNeill

Would we not be in the same position? Would you not expect to see a definition if it is so important to decide which dogs are covered by, or referred to in, the SSI and which are not? Do you see what I mean?

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Pauline McNeill

The working group that Jim Wilson was talking about was to discuss the policy of how to tackle XL bully dogs. Is that right? Have I understood that correctly?

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Pauline McNeill

I am just trying to understand the situation. Was Scotland feeding in to the DEFRA expert group on what you already knew was the planned changes to legislation in England in relation to XL bully dogs?

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Pauline McNeill

I am just trying to get my head round this. Is it the case that you knew from that expert working group that England was planning to ban XL bully dogs?

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Pauline McNeill

I understand the pressure that you must be under, but you can perhaps understand my concern. What would be the basis of the exemptions? I do not think that we can separate out today’s SSI and the exemptions. What are the exemptions?

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Pauline McNeill

Interestingly, the 1991 act is cited as an example in public law of poorly drafted and rushed legislation—I remember that from studying at the University of Strathclyde. I agree with Fulton MacGregor that we are all concerned about public safety, so we need to get it right this time.

Minister, I did not think that you answered Katy Clark’s question about what would happen if there was a legal challenge as to whether or not a dog was an XL bully dog. Could a lawyer run circles around that notion, on the basis that the definition is in guidance and not in the law? I have just seen the SSI—it is very sparse, and we have not seen the primary legislation. Can the courts rely on the website where the guidance is held as a solid foundation for defining what an XL bully dog is?

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Pauline McNeill

That I fully understand—it makes complete sense—but people in England could be in the same position if there are arguments over the definition. If the guidance is not seen as being legal—because it is just guidance—surely it can be challenged.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Pauline McNeill

There is a lot of material in our papers that we will not be able to cover. For example, some people who are concerned about the legislation referred to the 72 per cent of fatal attacks that have taken place in the home. There are concerns about what the changes will mean for people who already have these dogs, such as their requirements for exercise.

I have very little knowledge of what an XL bully dog is—only the information that I have gathered since this became an issue. Have there been discussions about why people are breeding such dogs? Should we be tackling the breeders? To some extent, I can understand owners’ concerns about the lack of evidence or history. An owner’s dog might not be an XL bully dog—it could be borderline—but a large dog that is not aggressive. Has tackling breeders been part of the discussion?

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Pauline McNeill

Finally, if, for example, someone reports to the police that their next-door neighbour has an XL bully dog that does not comply with the new regulations, does that mean that the police will have powers to examine the dog? Is that the process? I just want to understand what happens.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Pauline McNeill

Given our earlier discussion about the definition, if someone reports that a particular dog could be an XL bully, the police have the power to examine it. However, for the purposes of the SSI, they will have to examine it against the definition that is contained in the guidance, including the measurements that the minister mentioned, and make a determination as to whether they think that it is an XL bully dog. If they think that it is, they will have to take steps because the owner has not complied. Does that sound right?