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Could I ask a question? Is the vetting code of practice in the amendment a new vetting procedure? I am a wee bit confused about that. We have only just seen it, so I do not know what it is. It would be helpful to know.

It seems to be an awful big amendment to do one thing.

Like Russell Findlay, I have heard similar concerns.

Cabinet secretary, you opened by saying that the committee had asked for these changes, but that is not the case. The committee had asked that the chief constable be given a power to remove someone who was unable to maintain their vetting. However, what we have before us—I think—is a whole series of processes and procedures that you say the police inspectorate has asked for.

Our position is similar to what Russell Findlay set out; it is not that we would not support the changes had we had some discussion about them or had the chance to talk to police officers—who are currently vetted, of course—who would be affected by them.

The issues that the committee drew out were twofold. First, we were quite clear on the barred list—we think that that is one of the most important things about the bill, so we totally agree on that. Secondly, we agree that the chief constable should have a power to dismiss someone who has not maintained their vetting.

In the amendments that we have before us, however, it looks like there is a completely new process in relation to vetting. In my view, it is unprecedented that ministers would, at stage 2, present a whole new process for the profession, on which—unless you are telling us otherwise, cabinet secretary—the SPF has not been consulted. On a point of principle, that is unacceptable to me.

Unless you can tell us that you have undertaken such consultation before stage 2, we will vote against the amendments today. I strongly urge the Government to withdraw the amendments and seek to discuss the proposed changes with those affected, and you can then come back to the committee and say that you are satisfied that you have undertaken a consultation process. We can then look at the proposals at stage 3. However, I feel very strongly that what we have before us is not what the committee asked for, and I do not think that it is fair to represent the committee’s position as having asked for a complete review of the vetting of police—and of police staff, it seems.

I am interested to hear what the Government’s response to that position is.

There were quite a few points that you did not cover there. The one that I am keen to understand relates to the language around “reasonable assertion”.

I seek clarification on the cabinet secretary’s position on Katy Clark’s amendments. The Government’s amendment 1 seeks to adopt, for example, the European code of police ethics and the UN code of conduct for law enforcement officials. We have had no discussion as to what that means, so it would be useful to get some indication of what those codes cover.

The cabinet secretary used the phrase “lesser obligation” when discussing amendment 48. I am unsure whether that means that the bill’s provisions are much wider in scope in relation to equality and other issues or whether her point is to do with the relationship between the provisions and the Equality Act 2010.

The Government seems very positive about Sharon Dowey’s amendment 4. I ask Sharon Dowey to make clear whether her intention is that the chief constable should consult organisations on behalf of individuals. Is that what the amendment seeks to do?

Right. I know that that will be for discussion between you and the cabinet secretary but, when the revised amendment is being framed, I would like it to be clear about how the chief constable will select those individuals. Let me put it this way—some individuals are more vocal than others and some have louder voices through representatives than others.

The proposal is good, because it is important to consult those who have complained. I note that amendment 4 refers to individuals who have “made a complaint”; it does not say whether the complaint has been successful. If we are going to do something on the issue, I would like to understand a bit more of the detail before stage 3.

In principle, I am very supportive of amendment 4, but it is important to clarify how the chief constable would go about the consultation.

Thank you.

I am in the same position as Katy Clark, in that I think that the amendments in this group are really important, regardless of how they have been framed.

There are a couple of things on which I would like further clarification. Cabinet secretary, have you had any discussion with the Scottish Police Federation or other police organisations about the implications of the duty of candour being applied to off-duty officers? Katy Clark talked about various scenarios, and one of the difficulties with the bill lies in trying to apply its provisions to scenarios that we know very little about. One scenario that I can think of involves an off-duty officer who is out socialising and witnesses something. Does the duty of candour apply in that scenario? Are there any circumstances where it would not apply—for instance, if an officer is involved as a witness, which could compromise them in some other way—or is the duty absolute?

Secondly, in relation to the framing of the bill, I want to understand the language used in amendment 10, which says

“subject, in particular, to the reasonable assertion”.

Perhaps the officials will need to help to answer that. Why is the amendment framed in that language, with the phrase “reasonable assertion”? Does that suggest that there are circumstances where the privilege against self-incrimination would not apply?

I have a third point of clarification to raise. Cases where a police officer has been confirmed as a witness illustrate an important aspect of the duty of candour versus the issue of self-incrimination. Am I right in thinking that there is no requirement for the duty of candour to be applied until the point at which the officer concerned is confirmed as a witness and not a suspect? Would there be any scenarios in which that might change—where an officer might go from being a witness to being a suspect, but has already spoken without any privilege? I was wondering whether those things had been discussed when you framed the provisions.

I want to be clear before the vote. This is not a new vetting procedure.

On a point of information, I am not trying to be difficult with the Government on this. Cabinet secretary, you have said that these are the timetables that we have to work to, and that is true, but, having dealt with quite a lot of legislation over the years, I know that it is not usual for the Government to introduce a substantial procedure at this stage. I know that you said that it was not a new procedure, but it looks to me as though it is, and I am going to be asked to vote on it in five minutes. I think that it is a new procedure, and we have not consulted on it, so it is not fair to represent the process of legislation in that way.

We are probably all dissatisfied with regard to how fast the process is. However, it is unusual for the Government to lob in an entirely new process at this stage. We are not really sure about the effect that it will have on people. You said that you consulted the federation, but the committee is confused, because we have been told that you have not done that. Therefore, it would be helpful if the Government would even concede that it is not normal to lodge a three-page amendment to a procedure when we have had no discussion of that amendment.

I acknowledge that. I thought that you could draft something that would allow for an extension of that. It is really about the principle of not having a completely open-ended investigation. Something should go in the bill that tries to ensure fairness. Without revision, an investigation could just run on for years and years, as some have done.