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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 6 August 2025
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Displaying 1264 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 4 December 2024

Pauline McNeill

Is it also fair to say that there has already been quite a bit of change, even as we have been discussing the bill? We have heard about the change to corroboration, for example.

12:30  

In my experience of the justice system, change often happens through decisions that are made in court. For example, the supreme court is currently looking at section 275 of the Criminal Procedure (Scotland) Act 1995. Whether change should happen in the courts or in Parliament is perhaps a moot point, but it does happen in the courts.

Is it fair to say that there has already been quite a bit of change? I would include in that the fact that the Lord Advocate herself, and some of the victims in their testimonies in evidence to us, have said that they see a bit of a change in the Crown’s approach to involving victims a bit more in their cases.

I suppose that my question is a yes-or-no one. Do you agree that you can get quite a bit of change without legislating for it? That is really what you have been saying, I suppose.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 4 December 2024

Pauline McNeill

My question is, how do you resolve the situation if you are worried that Scotland would be an outlier? Do we just be the outlier and adjust our system, bearing in mind that removing the not proven verdict would apply not just to sexual offences cases, but to all cases that go before the court? Surely England must have some equivalent to corroboration.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 4 December 2024

Pauline McNeill

Thank you—that is helpful.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 4 December 2024

Pauline McNeill

Is that for sexual offences cases?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 4 December 2024

Pauline McNeill

For all offences?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 4 December 2024

Pauline McNeill

Right.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 4 December 2024

Pauline McNeill

I hope that this does not need to be said, but I think that we all agree that the treatment of victims in our court system is completely unsatisfactory and we need change—that is my view, anyway. The question is what kind of change is going to make a difference. We have specialist courts—we have the drugs courts and domestic abuse courts, which were introduced without legislation. Do you agree that we could, in theory, set up a specialist court of the High Court and the sheriff court without legislation? We have done that previously.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 4 December 2024

Pauline McNeill

My next question—

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 4 December 2024

Pauline McNeill

I am not going to go over ground that the witnesses have already given evidence on, because I know their views on those aspects. It feels as though, once the not proven verdict is removed, Scotland is going to be an outlier whichever way you look at it—unless we adopt the English position, which I know that the witnesses are opposed to, of having all 12 jurors, or possibly 10, agree on a verdict.

How could Scotland remove its not proven verdict, which is one of the few elements that there seems to be quite complete agreement on, without being an outlier? I am really interested to know how the witnesses think that we could fix that. Sandy, do you want to go first?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 4 December 2024

Pauline McNeill

Do they not have any system of evidence that would be comparable to Scotland’s system to prove a case?