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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 12 May 2025
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Displaying 187 contributions

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Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Jackie Baillie

Thank you, convener. I am grateful to you and the committee for the opportunity to participate in this morning’s session. I should confess at the start that I am not an expert on fish or fisheries, but I have constituents who are academic experts in the field.

Cabinet secretary, you and Dr Needle seemed to suggest that there is no robust evidence, based on what is going on in the Clyde, although you might have evidence from elsewhere. I think that there is also acknowledgment that cod stocks in the Clyde could well be different to cod stocks elsewhere, yet the cabinet secretary says that the decision is evidence based. I am not quite clear who is right. Has it been a risk-based assessment, which is one thing, or has it been evidence based? If it is evidence based, will you publish that evidence?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Jackie Baillie

Can that be fed into changes for 2023, if the evidence suggests that that is required?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Jackie Baillie

I find this entirely inconsistent. That area was previously included. You said that you do not have much evidence about that area of the Clyde, yet you have taken it out. We hear that it is because of representations made—I accept that—but it is not based on the science, and I think that we should be honest about that.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Jackie Baillie

But it was closed previously, on the basis of the same science.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Jackie Baillie

But there is no new science.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Jackie Baillie

Convener, I was staying quiet because I do not have a vote, as I am not a member of the committee. My opening position is that I share the ambition to protect cod stocks. However, the way that the process has been done has led to a lack of confidence in Marine Scotland’s thinking and evidential base, and that has harmed the debate.

There is a lack of specific evidence about the Clyde. That has been acknowledged by everybody. It is being rectified, and I welcome that. However, it is the case that cod in the Clyde are different. On the west coast, juveniles occupy shallow coastal habitats, whereas, in the North Sea, they occupy offshore banks. Their behaviours are different, and we have not taken the time to understand that.

I understand the risk-based approach, but the Government appears to be muddling the evidential and the risk-based approaches, because evidence in relation to the Clyde is simply not there. I am genuinely worried that we are excluding areas that we previously thought it important to include. Whether that is based on evidence, discussion or debate, I genuinely do not know. We are at risk of taking away people’s livelihoods but might not be protecting the areas that we need to protect. On that basis, I genuinely ask whether the cabinet secretary would withdraw the SSI and bring it back, because we share the ambition of protecting the cod stocks. However, we need to do that properly; the exercise has not been done properly, on this occasion.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Jackie Baillie

So, there is no new science.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Jackie Baillie

I think that the reality is that we do not know, because there have not been studies—that is the point that I am making. It is a risk-based assessment because you do not have the evidential knowledge that would inform the decision.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Jackie Baillie

That area was included before, however, on the basis of the same evidence. Your evidence has not changed.

Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee

Continued Petitions

Meeting date: 2 February 2022

Jackie Baillie

Given your comprehensive introduction to the petition, convener, you have taken away most of my comments.