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I have already mentioned that we are looking to procure for the intercity fleet. Also, obviously, there is an issue around the suburban fleet. There is the related issue of the roll-out of decarbonisation, which I have discussed with the committee before. I am not in a position to give you any more information than I have given previously. I can say that the options for the high-speed train fleet replacement are currently being developed, and that an associated business case that will be prepared by ScotRail Trains Ltd and Network Rail will come to me for consideration.

Alison Irvine is probably better placed than I am to give you an update now. However, as I try to do regularly, I will ensure that I update the committee on key milestones, because I know that there is keen interest.

We want to have an efficient system of public transport, but we have different modes of public transport. Much of our public transport is run by private companies and the market in Scotland is, by and large, deregulated apart from in the Lothians. There have been improvements in partnership working with councils, as well as with the Scottish Government, on the investments to improve the bus stock, with low-emission buses being a particular focus.

In an ideal world, we would all want to have free public transport, but there are fiscal constraints within which we are operating, as well as the fiscal position under which the parties that are likely to form a United Kingdom Government are operating. During the pre-election period, I am probably straying too far with that remark. I will try not to do that.

There are international examples of free public transport. The provision of free transport for the under-22s is a good example of where we can provide that for a whole group in society and where that can help to form regular patterns and habits among a group of people.

Given that we are investing £430 million to help with free bus travel for young and older people, my challenge back would be to ask whether there is a subsidised system that we can put in place that would encourage more people to use public transport. I think that free travel is potentially unachievable in the current financial climate, although that could be an ambition for the future, and we see that in some areas.

Aberdeen had a period of free bus travel at the weekends to encourage people who may not otherwise have gone into the city to travel in for leisure reasons. That is a good example. I emphasise that we are seeing a big increase in the use of public transport for leisure as opposed to work—that is the big growth area. The challenge there is whether the public should subsidise public transport for leisure use. Actually, should we discriminate at all between travel for work and travel for leisure?

Just to speculate, when I was in Dublin, talking to the transport minister and the rail operator there, I was interested to find that they are considering how employers can help to subsidise and support travel. Many companies already do that for employees who use public transport, with loans and so on. We should think through what we can do to finance public transport, which could be provided either at a reduced cost or, in an ideal world, free.

Our choices are somewhat limited by the current fiscal constraints, but it was good to see that recommendation and interest from the people’s panel, as well as the understanding that, if we are to tackle transport emissions, we need a shift to public transport. That was the recommendation from the people’s panel.

No; it is the reverse.

That is a good question. Unless people are in the Lothian Buses area, they probably do not realise that that happens. Lothian is seen as the most successful municipal bus company, part of which comes from the simplicity of its fare structure. We are also learning from the experience in England.

We are working with partners in the Scottish landscape, including private bus operators in the deregulated market, to anticipate how that might encourage a modal shift. We see benefits in the Lothians because everyone uses the buses and that is not in any way differentiated, whereas, in other parts of the country, affluence can affect whether people use the bus or prefer to use a car. We also need availability. I am interested in whether having a flat-rate structure might help to support more bus use in rural or semi-rural areas. I am keen to see that, but we must work with operators to identify where that can be done.

There is a case for looking at regional discounting. There are already interesting developments in Glasgow. We do not want to displace activity that is already happening, but that might help to inform us about how to get a modal shift and whether cutting prices might help. We are looking at a £2 price but that already happens with most buses anyway: they do not necessarily cost £4.

The problem comes outside cities, where there are the complications of poorer bus availability and more expensive buses. I feel strongly that if we want to tackle child poverty we must encourage and support parents who want to get better-paid jobs elsewhere or who want to travel to employment or education. That is more problematic in rural and semi-rural areas than it might be in our cities. We are looking at all the different aspects to identify where it would be best to pilot flat-rate fares and whether they would make a difference.

We must bear in mind that 79 per cent of all public transport journeys are by bus, so I am very keen to focus on that this year

No, that is certainly not the case. Convener, you have asked me not to stray into the territory of announcements that I cannot make. That is why I said that I cannot give you that information. I have not seen it, so I am not in a position to tell you; even if I had seen it, I would probably be restricted in what I can say in this meeting.

I do not need to do that—I have taken advice, and I am not allowed to discuss that particular area.

It is important to state that that is our commitment, although there are challenges with that. We should also be clear that the 20 per cent target relates to car kilometres. It is about encouraging people who currently use their car from Monday to Friday, to perhaps take public transport, such as the train, one day a week, to encourage that reduction.

It is likely that more progress will be made in our cities, and Glasgow and Edinburgh have a 30 per cent reduction target. The issue is how we make that shift in relation to the switch to electric vehicles. I know from talking to Councillor Gail Macgregor that she is a big champion of that policy, and we are keen to publish our joint report with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities on how that can be done. We will do that by the autumn, as we have indicated in the climate change plan.

The issue that Councillor Macgregor reiterates is about behaviour more generally, across all car use, to encourage people to get into different habits and behaviours. As for demand management, there will be mechanisms that councils can use, at their instigation, such as those that the Labour-Liberal Democrat Executive passed way back in the early 2000s.

I agree with you. However, a lot of the issue is to do with the technology of the ticketing system, which ScotRail inherited from Abellio. ScotRail knows that it must make changes to it. You are not the only MSP who has raised the issue with me. A number of MSPs have, and they have given good examples.

When I meet Joanne Maguire, the MD of ScotRail, I will ask about progress on the issue. I think that ScotRail is trying to address the issue, but I cannot give you the detail of how it is planning to do that. Once I have spoken to ScotRail, I would be happy to provide more information or to ask ScotRail to contact the committee directly to explain how it plans to change things. We might not be talking about an overnight change, because it is a systems issue. I will ask ScotRail to brief you at the same time, Mr Simpson.

I am alert to the issue. I share your concern, because the current situation does not make sense. We need to make sure that we have a fare structure that is simple and that, when people buy tickets, they can have confidence that they are getting the best value, because that will help to drive people on to public transport and to make them switch from the car to rail.

They are continuing. That is a matter for the employer and the trade union, as is appropriate. The public pay matrix was issued at the end of last week. With regard to the discussions with the rail unions, I cannot comment specifically on those with the RMT, but I understand that there will be engagement. I am not sure of the timescale for when the talks with the RMT will commence, but I reiterate that it is the responsibility of the employer to engage in those discussions with the relevant trade unions.

As a Government, our position is quite clear. Because of the constraints that we are under, there is a public pay matrix that—