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You will understand that I was not the transport minister who took the 2019 act through Parliament and, as the committee has pointed out, there have been a number of things since then, too. The choices that local authorities face with regard to the different models are exactly as the member has said. Some will, for example, want to take on full bus ownership in all its aspects and implementations; indeed, many look enviously at the Lothian Buses system. Some will want to look at franchising, while others will want to consider bus services improvement partnerships, as they might better reflect some of the informal bus partnerships that currently exist and might therefore require less resource funding.

I think that Sarah Boyack is referring not only to the capital resource—in these operations, you are still dealing primarily with buses that are owned or leased—but to the people resource that local authorities will need to run partnerships. You should remember that local authorities are already local transport authorities, with significant departments that run their transport work, and these are decisions that they will make.

I ask Bettina Sizeland to look back at the different models and the work that has been done. Obviously, part of that will involve sharing best practice and looking at other parts of the country and the rest of the UK to consider different models and the cost benefit aspects. That is why people are interested in Manchester, although there are negatives to that system, too. Indeed, people will tell you about the amount of resource and time that it took to set it up.

So it is not all easy sailing—there are challenges to face. However, that is the sort of information that we want to share and, as I have said, the guidance that will come out later this year will address some of those issues, too.

Yes—sorry. With regard to the quality of delivery of services, I suppose that, in that respect, conditionality will come down to the expectations of customers. I will take that issue back and discuss with CPT and, indeed, the bus providers whether the conditions of a grant should include, say, buses having to be warm. However, I know that that will be a challenge in certain parts on a day such as this, and the buses might not be of that quality.

Interestingly, again, there can be a lot of variability across the country. I do not know to what extent we can enforce, within the conditions of a grant, a requirement to meet a certain level of service. As you have said, that is more for the traffic commissioner.

With your agreement, convener, I will take that issue away and think more about the conditions of service. My understanding is that conditionality has more to do with standards of operation in relation to the workforce and fair work first principles.

This discussion does not relate to the regulations that are in front of us; I think that everybody will acknowledge that your question is about wider issues.

I might ask Bettina Sizeland whether she can give more information on the developments. My understanding from my discussions with different transport authorities is that it is important, as the convener referred to, that a lot of the issues are driven by local authorities themselves. The South West of Scotland Transport Partnership has interests, and I had a meeting with it two weeks ago about its different models. It is still working on them. I do not want to speak for it, because it is an autonomous body, but, in the summer, it gave an indication that it has been considering the type of scheme that it would want to have. In the Highlands, people are also interested in different models. It is quite interesting that rural areas in particular are taking forward work in that area.

In Glasgow, the transport authority is interested in wider issues that also affect other local authorities. I do not know the details of the talks that have taken place, because the issue is not my direct responsibility, but we provided enabling powers in the 2019 act so that people could take that work forward. There is strong lobbying in different areas for a franchise model in Glasgow.

All that work is at an early stage, as all the local authorities would acknowledge. That might address the initial question about the funding that is available for the next financial year.

Would Bettina Sizeland like to add anything?

It has, and we can identify how we can share that with you. The Confederation of Passenger Transport has also done work. That relates to the age profile: over-60s in particular have not returned to the services. We also know that, for some people, working patterns and transport patterns have changed completely. The busiest day for transport by rail, for example, is Saturday. When I visited Lothian Buses, I was told that Sunday is becoming more of a travel day because people want to visit family, and weekends are busier. That may be a consequence of more people working from home during the week, so they want to get out and about at the weekend. There is quite a variability in behaviour in the bus system that everybody is looking to analyse, but the consequences, particularly the reduction, are seen in the older age group. That is anecdotal, but I know that the bus academics and researchers are looking into questions such as whether people of that age profile are more reluctant to be out and about after having had the very serious experience of a pandemic when they were used to not going out as much, and how that has affected them.

There are a number of different reasons for that. Again, it comes back to the sustainability of the market. Remember that there were fuel price increases as well, and those will have hit a number of transport authorities, not least bus operators, in the profitability of routes. There is a knock-on impact on reliability and sustainability, which is why I, as minister, am very keen to address the issue. I hope that, when I come back to the committee with the fair fares review, we can discuss how we can try openly—the matter is not just for this Government but for any Government in the future—to address how we ensure the sustainability of our bus system.

That is a good and important question. We have supported bus priority measures in the past number of years. You will be familiar with the Aberdeen system, and it is my understanding that the bus gates are operational there. I also understand that the local authority, with the local bus company, is looking to provide free bus services at the weekend. Again, that is a proactive measure. I think that that is part of a more complete area.

The convener, who I see is in conversation, asked about funding in the budget. The bus priority fund, which helps to address some of the congestion issues and the capital issues, is the area that we will not be able to fund next year. It has been paused. We know the consequences of the severe capital budget reduction that the Scottish Government has received. We will have 10 per cent less capital funding over the next five years. The Scottish Fiscal Commission has reported to Parliament that it expects that that reduction will be to the value of 20 per cent over the next 10 years. Therefore, decisions have had to be taken on our capital budget in transport, and that is the one area that will see a marked change for next year. It is a longer-term commitment that we want to try to restore, but the bus priority fund, which funds, for example, bus lanes and bus gates, has been paused for next year, and there is no funding for that. All the plans that are in place and have been agreed will continue to be funded in 2023-24.

I suspect that there is a range of different factors. When I came into the Government, I was struck by the fact that there were fewer worked-up, ready schemes; it was not that there was a lack of demand. You will know from the experience in Aberdeen that, obviously, a lot of work has to go into preparation, because it is not just a case of designating a lane; there are a lot of planning issues and there is a lot of engineering work involved. There is a lot of preparatory work to be done. It is not as though there is a lack of desire for such schemes. I know that a number of local authorities will want to do them. We are actually honouring all the schemes that have come in. People will want to do it, but the issue is the pace of implementation. They may have other priorities. There are challenges in particular areas. There will be a number of different factors for different local authorities. Again, Bettina Sizeland might have better insight into the types of schemes that have been coming in and the pace at which they are coming in.

That is a very good question. I can answer it by assuring you that the network support grant has been fully funded. That means that we have worked with the bus operators to identify what they have experienced in the past year and what they anticipate experiencing this year—that is done by a kilometre rate—and, relative to that, it is continuing to be funded at a similar rate. Last year, the network support grant did not get drawn down as much as anticipated because of the reduced patronage numbers and, as we know, bus services in a number of our local authority areas were cut, so the funding for them was not needed.

I reassure you that the funding in the current year has been reinvested in bus services but, for 2024-25, the network support grant is fully funded, albeit at a reduced rate, because the demand and need for it is not as much as anticipated. That is because, unfortunately, some bus companies have reduced their routes, which means that, on the formula basis that is used, they will not need as much. That is the explanation. It is still fully funded and it is stable; it is just at a different level than we anticipated because of the reduced patronage on routes in some areas.

Yes, that is fair, and that is why we need to—this is the critical question facing bus services—find means by which we can have greater sustainability in the bus service. It has been weakened because of the pandemic. The numbers of passengers have not returned to what they were and, with private operators in a deregulated market, that makes some services more vulnerable.

Perhaps I can give you my overview as minister rather than any concrete correlation or evidence.

There is a relationship in that respect, I think. The more funding that you have for concessionary travel, the more that you limit the market for what you might call full-fare-paying passengers. If your concessionary fare scheme is based on a system in which bus operators are no better and no worse off and there are 2 million people getting concessionary fares, obviously there is less scope for operators to rely on full-fare-paying passengers to fund their services.

You are right, though; internationally speaking, we are perhaps disproportionate in the amount that we fund concessionary fares and free bus travel. I do not want to pre-empt the fair fares review, but I can tell you that the amount is considerable. As I have said to the committee, free bus travel for the under-22s is an extremely popular measure that is helping families address the cost of living. That is good in and of itself, as is the concessionary fare for older people; it is good for social reasons as well as for economic reasons in families.

However, there is a challenge. A considerable amount of public funding is being used—when you add in the other bus funding that we are providing, you are talking about half a billion pounds—so the question is: can we use that money better to provide more sustainable bus services? It is great to have a free bus pass when you are under 22, but if you live in certain parts of the country where there are no bus services to go on, the benefit is not as great as it might be in, say, Glasgow or other parts of the country.

As for whether there will be any unintended consequences, I think that, over the piece, there have been, and that is why, working with the committee, I am keen to look at the overall sustainability and reliability of the bus market to ensure that we can make better use of public funding to support it.

That was just a general overview. I think that the fair fares review, once it is published, will provide the evidence that you want in a more concrete way.

There are two aspects to that question. Work will have been done on overall modal shift, and we can look at what we have on the costs and benefits in that respect.

As for individual areas, I would also say that, with regard to my conversation with SWestrans, that is exactly what it is looking at: the different models and the costs and benefits. That is its work. We must remember that, for buses, there is no one-size-fits-all solution in Scotland—that is the challenge. However, it is not necessarily up to me as minister to set that out; it is something for local authorities and the transport authorities, which have the legal responsibility in their local area, to look at, and it is really important that they have the ability to share their analyses.

For example, Highland might be different to Dumfries and Galloway, but there might also be similarities. Bob Doris used the phrase “remote and rural”, but I do not like to use the word “remote”—it all depends on where you are starting from. After all, a lot of people think that Glasgow is remote.

One of the biggest challenges is semi-rural areas. The issue is not just what might be called more dispersed communities when it comes to geography, land and availability of buses; some of the dynamics and how the market works in areas that are relatively close to cities can be more problematic than the situation in more rural areas.