Seòmar agus comataidhean

We will get the correspondence to you right away. We will check what we know about the Welsh position and if we do not know about it, we will also let you know that.

That is correct. The membership includes a chairperson, operators of different modes of transport, transport authorities, including local transport authorities—Margaret Roy is a representative—and passenger and accessibility representatives. Transport Scotland is also a member, as well as some board advisers, who are non-voting.

Whether we are talking about the current system or any other system that is provided under the Transport (Scotland) Act 2019, we would want to be able to implement and operate smart ticketing. There is not an interdependency, but there is a correlation.

It makes sense that we optimise what we can do, which everyone is up for. I understand that the Glasgow tripper ticket was introduced, which works between different operators and can be accessed on a mobile phone. We know from research that more people want to use their mobiles as opposed to a card for tickets. We need to ensure that there is an understanding of what technology is commonly used so that we can develop those systems in order for there to be a common interoperability, whatever the type of operation.

Good morning, and thank you for inviting me to discuss the addition of the new National Smart Ticketing Advisory Board to the Public Services Reform (Scotland) Act 2010. The board commenced operation in November 2023 and is a product of the Transport (Scotland) Act 2019. It will advise the Scottish ministers on topics including smart ticketing arrangements, a national technological standard for smart ticketing and the strategic development of smart ticketing in Scotland.

We intend to add the board to schedule 5 to the 2010 act. That would mean that by order under section 14 of the act, the Scottish ministers could

“make any provision which they consider would improve the exercise of”

the board’s functions,

“having regard to efficiency ... effectiveness, and ... economy.”

Adding the board to schedule 5 to the 2010 act is in line with Scottish Government policy and is considered best practice for new public bodies.

As the board is new, it is not expected that any provision will be needed in the near future to improve the exercise of the board’s functions, but this instrument would confer a power on the Scottish ministers to make such a provision in the future, should it be required.

In accordance with section 25(4) of the 2010 act, the board has been consulted in relation to the proposal to make this order. The consultation took place at the first meeting of the board on 28 November 2023, in person, with all members and the chairperson of the board in attendance. As a result of that consultation, the board confirmed that it was content with the proposal, and no other representations were received. No changes to the proposal were therefore necessary.

Adding the board to the 2010 act will have no financial impacts. I am happy to take any questions from the committee.

The first meeting of the board was in November, at which time we were moving to the end stages of the fair fares review. Interoperability of ticketing is a key aspect of that work. Individuals who are on the board would have had the opportunity to input their organisations’ views on the review, apart from anything else.

In terms of the board’s capacity and capability, senior people are operating at board level and there are advisers who are specialists in their area. The chair has been involved in ticketing systems and procurement previously and has extensive experience on that.

I will meet with the chair in the next couple of weeks to go through the board’s proposed work plan—as you said, that plan has to come to ministers to be approved. Part of that process will be for me to listen to what board members are saying, because the whole point is that they will want to say what needs to be done. I provide ministerial oversight and am not a technological expert in ticketing. I expect that expertise to come from the board and from the Transport Scotland members who support the board. There will be steps as to what changes need to be made.

George Beale-Pratt might want to explain a bit more about what the board might look at, but I am interested in the point that people want to use mobiles instead of cards that are interoperable. We have talked about the Glasgow tripper being a success. When the ticket became available on mobiles, that increased the bus companies’ uptake fivefold. However, barcodes and QR, or quick response, codes are more of an issue. The technological standards are key. Obviously, the board can advise about the capability of different organisations to change or adapt, and whether that causes them issues or otherwise.

George, will you explain a bit more about what we expect from the work programme’s scope and coverage?

We need to give the board the space to do its work, which is multimodal and covers different areas—we have representatives with experience from ScotRail and ferries, so the work takes place across those areas. I am open to sharing what we can when we can. I will speak to the chair in a couple of weeks, and one of the things that I will explore with them is how and when we can share, so that you can understand and keep on top of what is happening around that capability.

George, are you happy to answer?

It was a very interesting debate—thank you very much, convener.

Motion agreed to.

I wonder whether George Beale-Pratt could answer the question about their terms of reference.

It is really important that we have industry experts. On the board, Strathclyde Partnership for Transport is represented, and we have Alex Hornby, whom many of you will know is the group managing director at McGill’s Buses. Those people, who run organisations, are providing their expertise. I do not want to put them off their membership by saying that they will be on the board forever.

We want to ensure that the board’s output is timely, to help us to move forward with technology and smart ticketing. I am due to meet the chair shortly to look at its work programme.

Members of the board can be reappointed, but we want to make sure that they can get on with the job. They are very keen. If you have not seen them, reading the minutes of the board’s first meeting last November might be helpful background. That shows their enthusiasm in scoping the challenges in relation to getting a more operable and interoperable system, which is what we all want.